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Hi all, Just like to share my recent acquisition, a unique Mitokoro-mono by the 5th generation mainline head of the Goto school, Tokujo. He was the eldest son of Kujo, born in 1549 and passed away in 1631. After serving Oda Nobunaga, he became the court chisel master for Toyotomi Hideyoshi. Exhibited at the Tokyo National Museum. Enjoy!

I had a very positive experience purchasing this Nihonto from Jake. Communication was clear and professional throughout, the sword was exactly as described, and shipping and packaging were excellent and done with care. I would not hesitate to recommend Jake to fellow collectors looking to buy a Nihonto.

Connor, Don't be bothered by the fact that the signature is gimei. It was a well known practice as long as they were making swords. Samurai, as well as Shoguns, have been known to treasure a sword while knowing it was gimei. As for your fittings. This sword could have been brought to the war by it's owner, refitted with the wooden saya (scabbard) for the field. It would have been covered by a leather cover. They are often lost over the years. Many were donated, or bought up by the military in drives to meet demands of the war effort, then refitted in varying degrees and sold to new officers. Yours looks to have kept the civilian tsuka (handle). Cannot tell if the tsuba (hand guard) was kept or a military one put in its place. You can see an example of how it might have looked: They were also refitted fully with military hardware: There are ways to restore your sword and make it look nice, or you can keep it as is. Either way, please read up on how to take care of it: Japanese Sword Care - Japaneseswordindex.com

There are quite a few familiar faces in this excellent NHK World feature in which @Keichodo has a starring role. View it here.

錆銅製 – Made of bronze 釣鐘竜巻香爐 – A dragon wrapped around a temple bell incense burner

Pay peanuts and get monkeys! Some time ago this example came along. Too badly damaged to be repaired, missing a hand, but plenty here to enjoy!

As much as I'd love to see it- don't do it. I did it with my first love: the other o-tanto I own. It took maybe 8 years and is almost certainly a money sink. There are some in Japan that can do it much more economically than outside of Japan, but it is a difficult road.

Kanemune.

Goto Tokujo = my favorite mainline Goto dude. His son Kenjo is my #2 pick. Tokujo lead quite a life clashing with the Tokugawa, ending up ronin for a while, AND he did it with daughters En Tout. Elements of the Lone Wolf n Cub story from his life, and he was a top notch artist on top of it all. I saw this recently with someone who I thought was based in Japan. If you picked it up from him, well done. Scoring a complete set of Goto Tokujo work is.... very hard. I haven't been able to do it. I've been searching for one of his rare tsuba for several years and had one or two near misses.

These are often described as "Abalone" design most are not signed and as you already speculate, a signature by Nobuie is likely gimei. The tsuba is featured in the movie "Ichi" - blind swordswoman 2008, image is poor resolution [how is that for trivia ] https://www.ebay.com/itm/296923445362

Late 1500s is full of rabbit holes and some "Who was that guy" wonders. I only own 2 swords and 2 o-tanto. One of the o-tanto is a 2 character signature exceptional blade by a little known guy from around the same time as your blade. Exceptional Owari blade. Call it very early Owari-shinto? Tanobe-san wrote a nice long sayagaki for it. But who was that guy.... supposedly he was the son, or brother, or cousin of a famous smith??? Sometimes just enjoy the blade. edit ps. One look at your blade and I would have thought Shimada? Looks like that wasn't a bad guess https://www.sho-shin.com/soshu.html @Jussi Ekholm probably has the right of it. I'm more on the fittings side of collecting.

In case this helps

At this point I would like to thank Brian for his message and for allowing me to be part of this forum. A donation will go to the NMB.

To my eye signature seems to be 和泉守兼定作 Izumi no Kami Kanesada saku. I would dare to say it is not "the" Mino Kanesada. However there seem to be 4 other Kanesada (兼定) smiths who had the title Izumi no Kami. Unfortunately I am on my phone and away from my references for the weekend so I cannot check if I have a signature example for any of the lesser known ones.

Thank you, Curran! I knew he didn’t get along with Ieyasu, but I wasn’t aware of the connection to Lone Wolf. I picked it up in Japan from someone well known, along with a Sokujo shishi set, just last week.

It's not the ww2 smith, if that's what you are asking. I believe this blade is older. John C.

Thank you for sharing this. I really appreciate your fine work. I will leave you an address for you to send me some Adzuki manju.....

@Nobody Moriyama san, many thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge.

On dating I would trust Ueda, who had access to documents such as temple registers, more than Meinertzhagen who relied on stylistic considerations. So I would take the 1907 death at face value. Either for some reason Kohosai stopped working for the last 30 years of his life, or Meinertzhagen places him a bit too early (note that Davey says late 19C).

Most blades probably saw use at one time or another.

Remember that gimei just means the signature is false, not that the sword is. This is almost certainly a genuine Japanese sword, and likely antique. Even without the signature, it's a nice piece and worthy of looking after. Yes..you have a genuine antique Japanese sword that looks to be traditionally made.

“Worked between 1840 and 1875…”

Though gimei, it may still be a sword meriting restoration. I would inquire with a traditionally trained togishi (Japanese sword polisher) and get their opinion on it.

Another... https://www.ebay.com/itm/277650095032? John C.

Hi Connor @CarstairsCowboy, I will relocate your thread to the Nihonto section for more input on the signature. More photos never hurts, preferably on a dark non reflective background. Close ups of the tip, full blade profile centered from above, both sides of the tang. It’s best if pictures are oriented so tip is north and tang south. Welcome to the forum, and thanks for sharing your sword and family story with us. My journey into Nihonto started similarly; with a small nugget of a story and an inherited sword. Best of luck, -Sam

It is genuine in that it is a real Japanese sword . The question as John says is the blade really made by Yasuyo . The Japanese produced a lot of blades and put the names of famous makers on them to make them more saleable . This is like coming across a painting signed by say Picasso . It is a real painting but was Picasso the actual artist or did someone sign it with his name to make it more saleable

I have a Yoshida Yoshitsugu type 98, and it has the leather cover over a black wooden saya. The blade is signed, but not dated, so wondering if anyone can place this sword on the timeline based on the cosmetic attributes? Thanks Justin

Hello Connor, this appears to be a genuine Japanese sword. The sword dates to the 1700's and the maker is Ason Yasuyo, whether the signature is authentic is another matter. The fittings are traditional Samurai style that have been modified for the war. If you know about the history of how your grandfather took the sword in Burma, I would type it all out and keep it with the sword as a nice bit of family history.

Justin, your mei looks to read as : Seki ju Yoshida Yoshitsugu saku 関住吉田吉次作　　with SEKI stamp. As noted by Bruce likely to be around 1942. He looks to be average wartime smith. This sword has "budget" army koshirae, but of note has bohi, which would cost a bit more. YOSHITSUGU 吉次: real name Yoshida Jinrō (吉田任郎). Born Meiji 43 (1910) December 16. Registered as Seki smith on Showa 16 (1941) May 6 (age 30). Common mei: (“Yoshitsugu” “1944”), (“Yoshida Yoshitsugu”), (“Noshi Seki ju Yoshida Yoshitsugu saku”). see: [Slough p.202] see NMB post below which has a naval kaigunto dated 1944.

Yes it is a shame, because it's got a very interesting hamon in my opinion. The sad bit is I don't think there's a boshi, and one on side the hamon is about a cm wide, but on the other it's down to possibly a millimeter at most in places. I don't have any sentimental attachment to the blade personally as I bought it because I liked it's koshirae, but I will probably take it along to a meet-up here in England at some point and see what people think!

Happened to me years back, sword blade way out of polish [may have had one more polish left in it and some minor chips] but the tsuba was very fine nanako in iron with lined udenuki-ana. Stripped the tsuba off and sold the blade for the overall price I had paid. $800 from memory - I still love the tsuba. I guess my point is the same as Curren's - sometimes the fittings are superior to the blade and may never have been part of the "original" Koshirae.

And I have just listed another large group of books. B209. The Sword Mountings of Higo Province. $70. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b209-the-sword-mountings-of-higo-province/ B475. The Art of the Samurai. $70. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/sword-books/b475-art-of-the-samurai-metropolitan-museum/ B521. 3 great, beautiful books on Higo fittings bu Mr. Ito, with translations. $1,675. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b521-kanshiro-nishigaki-hirata-shimizu-hayashi-kamiyoshi-3-books-by-ito/ B699. All 10 Haynes Auction Catalogs. $325. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b699-all-10-robert-haynes-auction-catalogs/ B661. Japanese Armor Makers for the Samurai. $195. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/armor-books/b661-Japanese-armor-makers-for-the-samurai-by-chappelear/ B935. Tsuba. $95. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b935-tsuba/ B539. Echizen Kinai Tsuba. $165. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b539-echizen-kinai-tsuba-by-tsuruoka/ B759. Chic Sukashi: Akasaka Tsuba. $85. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b759-chic-sukashi-akasaka-tsuba-by-sano-museum/ B214. Nihonto Koza Translation by Watson, Volume VI Kodogu Part 1. $195. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b214-nihonto-koza-volume-vi-kodogu-part-1/ B513. Bushi no Issho: Sukashi Tsuba. $60. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b214-nihonto-koza-volume-vi-kodogu-part-1/ B973. Akasaka Tsuba by Sasano. $85. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b973-akasaka-tsuba-by-sasano/ B289. Meito in North America & Yagyu Tsuba. $35. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/sword-books/b289-meito-in-north-america-yagyu-tsuba/ B707. Gai So Shi by Haynes. $150. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b707-gai-so-shi-外装史-by-robert-haynes/ And 9 or 10 catalogs from Kokusai Tosogu Kai, various prices. Find these at the top of my tsuba and kodogu list on my site. As before, if you are interested please contact me through my website. And more fine books are coming soon. Thanks, Grey

@Sukaira I am a huge lover of unpoular schools at the moment lol Mainly Kongo Hyoe and Naminohira. Still on the lookout for a signed Ubu Moritaka but it s gonna take some time I think. I find that koto period Naminohira is extremely hard to collect. Esp Ko Naminohira. They tend to be very tierd and thin/slender and the decent ones all tend to go exponentially more or juyo. I never had any interest in shinshinto but Motohira blades do turn my head every now and then. This one on AOI right now is just splendid https://www.aoijapan.com/katanaoku-yamato-ason-motohiranbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/

Howdy y'all! I just found this board and signed up recently. Name's Connor and I am based out of Calgary, Alberta, and I have always loved swords and history. A bit ago I started digging more into the history of Japanese swords and swordsmithing when I inherited a katana from my father, who inherited it from my grandfather. I would love to find out more about it, since a few people I trust have told me it is a gimei. I would love to find out more about it and see if I can get it properly restored and refitted one day! In the meantime, I do my best to keep it in tact and clean, and do the digging I can.

@anguilla1980 That is a solid first pick up for Sukesada. Also I just wanted to share a close up of that Yosozaemon that @klee posted, because I also downloaded the original image You really don't see (or at least I have not) long Kinsuji running through the ha in Sue-Bizen pieces. Just proves the smiths had all the knowledge and skills, just not the time or resources (or maybe even just the reason) sometimes.

Here you go.

6. 73,0 x 68,0 x 4,3 mm Mei: Efu Ju Masanao Price: 320€ + shipping

@Curran I'm down in pittsburgh haha. so neighbors. the sword is actually with my dad up near scranton. when we first tried getting them looked at I think we met with someone from the NY group, but outside of their regular meetings. it was 2 guys we met at I think a community college in new york. but they were mostly looking at the swords themselves. unfortunately weren't able to learn much outside of "yeah you'll need to spend a few grand to get them polished before anyone can say anything." Thank you so much for that detailed answer, though! I forgot how much fun it was to dig in to this stuff. And I swear every person I talk has something new and awesome to tell me. It's wild to think that just a PIECE of a sword can have more story baked in to it than almost anything us westerners are used to dealing with. I'll try to get better photos next time I'm back in that area.

Bingo. It might be sanmai (3 layer construction) sandwiched by the fukurin (outer layer). I'm (*) the laymans terms for Ryan. I'd have to see inside the openings (central and the one for the kozuka opening) to determine. Ko-kinko is > than a sanmai tsuba, but -either way- a better tsuba that most people find when they start collecting. Ko = (old) and Kinko = (soft metalwork). So it is an (old softmetal) tsuba of shakudo (type of special black pickled copper) with gold highlights. Condition looks decent. The other iron one is hard to tell without taking it off the koshirae. Most likely it is an Edo period katchushi (armor maker) piece. Larger but thin. @ryanvango is probably right that it is on the sword as part of the mix-n-match of WWII bringbacks. There are even stories of guys using tsuba as poker chips. After the game, different tsuba ended up on different swords. Winner had more tsuba ? and the losers had a sword with no tsuba where they'd find a replacement later. It is an old story, but it gives you a vibe of the mix n match we sometimes see. There is the old story of the guy who brought a sword into the Tampa show. Guy wanted to sell it. Benson told him he didn't want the sword (low grade, about $1000 then), but did want the tsuba. Guy didn't want to separate them, so Benson bought the sword for (1k?), took off the tsuba and sold it for $5k within the hour. It would resell for $7k+ within a month or two. Benson then gave away the sword rather than have to haul it back to Hawaii. While a special case, sometimes the mix-n-match of WWII bringback koshirae pops up a few interesting one. My own favorite ko-kinko tsuba came off a sword this way in the 2019 Tampa show. Not exactly worth $5k, but it was worth more than the Echizen shinto sword it was on.

Congratulations on getting a very nice looking sword. I do like the horimono a lot, even though it is worn down. I do have huge respect for NBTHK and NTHK shinsa, however there are always limitations in play when they are processing hundreds of swords at fast pace in a shinsa session. I think most important thing is that they would see this as late Muromachi Sōshū Masahiro. Japanese way of giving extremely specific attributions is something I don't personally like all that much. They most likely cannot spend hours on researching a single normal sword so they shoot out a reasonable attribution they can agree on. Granted late Muromachi Sōshū is out of my comfort zone and I don't track them in my books, however I don't think I can easily find a reference sword by this smith from the huge amount of references I have at home, that is how rare this smith is. This is pretty obscure smith and very specific attribution, my guess would be that NBTHK would give out a lot more broad and general attribution. I think this entry from Nihontō Meikan is the only info I can dig up about this particular smith.

Google Translate got it wrong, the original papers clearly state 8th gen (八代, hachi-dai). The 5th or 6th gen Masahiro (there are some disagreements; Nihonto Club says 5th gen https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/MAS205 while the Soshu-Den museum says 6th https://nihonto-museum.com/blog/soshu-tsunahiro) was the one who changed his name to Tsunahiro, however the Masahiro line continued for at least another 2 generations parallel to the newly established Tsunahiro line.

We have a thread running titled ‘Chinese Cannon’, but no dedicated thread for old Korean guns. The other thread can be found below for those that have missed it so far. Any further Korean updates can hopefully be found here in this new thread. In the meantime that thread is still open for Chinese cannon or gun candidates. Korean cannon were supplemented by smaller pole weapons for infantry, single or triple-barrel guns set off by a lighted fuze/fuse. (What we think of as matchlocks probably first started to replace these older weapons as the Koreans defended the peninsula against Hideyoshi’s armies in the 1590s. There is a Korean matchlock example in the Gun Museum on beautiful Tanegashima Island, just south of Kyūshū.) Today I started work on making a disposable haft for the bronze long gun, and the video gave me some hints. (It’s in Korean but sufficiently visual to follow to the end.) The bronze socket is 20mm in diameter internally so I sourced a suitable pole, whittled it down and stained it. There are two holes in the socket so I drilled a hole in the whittled end of the pole to receive some kind of mekugi or locking pin. Length of pole? The records talk about overall length including socketed barrel of 110~200 cm, but if you think about it, loading needs to be done with the muzzle upright. The pole cannot be too long for the average gunner. I made it short enough to load easily when standing in a ditch or behind a rampart. Counter-weight? Some records suggest these guns had a blade on the other end of the shaft, so the weapon could still be used as a club or a spear if you were to be caught while trying to reload. The barrel is really quite heavy, so I would be happy with any extra weight added to the other end of the haft, anything, even an iron ishi-tsuki from a spear for a start. (A blade could be dangerous for friends passing behind you.) Ballistics Although the video shows insertion of pachinko balls and patch material, the records mention it was mainly arrows that were used, either in bunches, or as single bolts with rounded feathers and flat enforced ends.

Assuming for the time being that these really are Korean (i.e. not Chinese.) With poles…

PS Just found a great video, with unearthed examples of Korean long guns of this type, with very similar inscriptions.

He joined in 2013

I asked a Chinese collector to take a look. He found nothing wrong with Trystan's character identification. However, he cautioned that Chinese inscriptions were molded in and not inscribed. He also pointed out that these hand cannons are referred to by the number of barrel rings, in your case 7.

Due to the great age of the engraving, many of the characters are no longer very clear. I can only make out some of the Kanji, and even those may not be entirely accurate. 勝字八 萬曆癸未八月日 1583年8月 勝字小（藤）？五（斤/近）士 匠山守 （藤）？五錢 丸五 About 石火矢 Ishibiya According to 武用辨略 Buyō Benryaku, in 1551 (or 1576 according to 豐薩軍記 Hōsa Gunki), 南蠻人 Nanban foreigners presented ishibiya to the 大友家 Ōtomo clan, and 大友宗麟 Ōtomo Sōrin named them 國崩 Kunikuzushi. Regarding this event, 武用辨略 Buyō Benryaku gives the following account: In 天文Tenbun 20 (1551), a Portuguese ship anchored in Bungo fired ceremonial salutes toward a church. The tremendous explosions could be heard at Funai Castle. Alarmed, Sōrin and his retainers went to investigate. Thus, eight years after small firearms had been introduced in天文Tenbun 12, cannon arrived in the 大友 Ōtomo domain. Overjoyed, 宗麟 Sōrinnamed them 國崩 Kunikuzushi. Because these guns fired stone projectiles, they were also called 石火矢 Ishibiya, a term that continued to be used into the Edo period. In Sengoku-period records, the term ishibiya is almost always used. For example, descriptions of the ironclad ships built by 織田信長 Oda Nobunaga mention 石火矢三挺 “three ishibiya.” Judging from surviving materials concerning 國崩 Kunikuzushi, the石火矢 Ishibiya introduced by the 大友家 Ōtomo clan were in fact a type of frankish gun, also called 仏狼機砲 futsurōki-hō in Japanese. This has already been explained in detail in my article “Ancient Japanese Long-Range Weapons” and will not be repeated here. As for the 石火矢 Ishibiya imported by the 織田家 Oda clan, historical sources do not clearly record their country of origin. However, during the 安土桃山時期 Azuchi–Momoyama period, Portugal was Japan’s principal trading partner, and 織田信長 Oda Nobunaga himself maintained close relations with Portuguese missionaries such as Luís Fróis. It is therefore likely that most of these weapons were imported from Portugal.

A couple more fire lance angles. (Some measurements to follow.) Iron block underneath, on opposite side to touch hole. For insertion of pole, receiving end.

Can't say I've ever sold anything on Yahoo Auctions but as a buyer I agree 100%, it can be very annoying. I recently thought I had won a nice tsuba with hozon papers but it was relisted at the last second for more than double what would have been my winning bid price... Not all sellers do it but when it happens to you on an item you really want, it can be very frustrating indeed.

Hello, new collectors! So, in my last post I displayed what I thought was a “good purchase” using the markers and tells I discussed in my previous posts. It appears that I received a “sad” emoji (personally, I think the whole “emoji” thing should be eliminated!!). So, is that member “sad” that I purchased what I consider a good purchase and they missed out on it?? Anyway, for whatever reason, some members on the forum seem to avoid me like the plague (or Covid 19)!! Don’t let that deter you from trying to make your own “bargain purchase” of tsuba by using some of the markers and tells that I have described in my previous posts! Remember, you can always ask for assistance from members of this forum. I am certain that they would be glad to help! And I consider this forum to be the world's best place to ask for assistance on tsuba . But hey, that is just my opinion!! So, you new collectors, go out there on those purchase sites and have some fun (within your spending budgets!). When in doubt, ask for help on this forum! With respect, Dan