Leaderboard

Hello everyone ! Yes it is a happy ending and a relief. Here some fast pictures taken yesterday evening with my phone. They betraye the brighness of the hada (very difficult to picture in roots conditions):

Particularly relevant: Too expensive for Hozon A long time ago in Japan a dealer showed me an ubu signed Awataguchi Hisakuni tachi and it was preserved in top condition. It was then, and still is now, one of the real treats of my life as a collector and one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen. He said while the owner was alive he turned down an offer of about one million dollars for the blade. Now that he was dead, the family was selling it for half a million. I wished I had that money, I wished I could buy that sword. He then looked at me and said, “Only Hozon. Too expensive for Hozon,” and we all had a good laugh. There is no limit to how high that blade could go in terms of papers… or of dollar value. That much should be self-evident to anyone who studies just a little bit and therein lies the joke that someone would put the papers ahead of this blade. The owner’s family didn’t want it published so didn’t put it to Juyo. That blade could easily be Juyo Bunkazai if the owner wanted. But they stopped at Hozon, they just verified the signature and left it at that. Hozon tells you the bare minimum: the blade is antique, it is generally free of fatal flaws, the signature is accurate and here is the attribution or consensus about who made it. Today this blade has still not been handed to Juyo. It was quietly sold to someone of great taste and financial backing and quietly resides somewhere to the great pleasure of the owner. They don’t need the higher level paper to tell them what it is as they already know.

Hello everyone and thank you for all your support ! Finally the sword was delivered in "express" service after being sent to Limour (600km from home). The pack have suffered a little but the adress was very clearly wroten and unmystakable... Must important : the sword is fine, the sayagaki and the habaki were split a little probably by rude handling during this so long a journey... I am realy relived... and at the same time still angry : I had to wrote 2 times to the president and director of the group to have someone doing something... without telling SAV harassement and going any day to complain to post office (thanks to Brian's insurectionnal war tactics !). Thank you to all of you members, I wasn't alone and it was important ! Maybe admin could add SOLVED ! to the tittle, If I could help NMB or any member anyway: let me know (have an ID for NMB) sincerely yours, Eric V.

That is excellent news! Congrats. I am sorry you had to go through this, but shows that sometime you have to stop being polite and do what you have to do. So glad it worked. Lesson...never give up. Lost is not always lost. You made it inconvenient for them until they had to put some effort in. No doubt without that, it would have been eventually considered abandoned and would have disappeared. Enjoy!

Examples of Toki Sukenobu of Noshu with and without stamps:

I'd try to inject more humor here, but why take it away from that lovely little tanto

@Jack Zacao Not completely sure how well the thickness of base plate correlates with the age of the menuki. Comparing the thickness of the red copper (shakudō 赤銅) base plate of your menuki with examples in my collection yours are characteristic of menuki made during the mid to late Edo Period. I have and once owned a set of apprised menuki by the NTHK with a similar thickness base plate that was dated to the late Edo Period. I currently own an NBTHK apprised pre-Edo Period (Ko-Kinko (古金工) menuki set with a very thin shakudō base plate. I have a few other sets I want to submit for appraisal down the line that have similar thin base plates made of shakudō. I enjoy collecting menuki almost as much as I enjoy collecting tsuba. I can post a few apprised examples, but I don't want to dominate this thread.

Looks uchigatana so it can be late Muromachi.

Looks like "Okada" 岡田 兼定, he's listed as a Seki Kaji Tosho and made both Gendai and Showato. Rated Chuge Saku by Akihide.

□□関岡田兼定作之 - ?? Seki Okada Kanesada made this. The first two characters may be 濃州 – Noshu.

Nice Koshirae and certainly uncommon, if the blade wasn't so obviously Gimei it would be worth owning. A similar dust cover appears on Page 168 of Swords of Imperial Japan 1868-1945.

Worth re-reading: https://web.archive....o.com/ladder-theory/ Best, Hoshi

Hello dear Dee and Jean, I had quite hard time: after writing me that my parcel have been flashed the 8 january at 1h30 AM, it get lost a second time... I made another claim and every day calling the after sell service, going back to the post office any evening after work and mailing to any mail box avalliable : it appears to be found back the 14th ... and lost again this time "definitively". I wrote a very sharp letter, writen with the hell fire and I put it in copy to the groupe La poste président and exécutive director. Today they mailed me that the parcel have been "opened" and damagesd, they will repack it and send to me as soon as possible... I realy wonder what I am going to found, if it ever gets to me. Thanks for your support ! Friendly Eric

With some fantasy i could imagine that there is a star stamp to see. Ask him for better pictures Did you see it?

True for the steel saya, light tan, but these darker tan with double chuso release buttons do come with gendaito. I own one with a star-stamped blade.

Regarding the shinsa process, I had thought it was the opposite - that previously you had to submit twice to get TH, but could now submit once and have it evaluated at both levels. The NBTHK price listing (https://www.touken.or.jp/english/aboutus.html - see Shinsa Price List) seems to indicate you can do both at once. Interesting to see that I've gotten it backwards! Does anyone know when this shift happened?

I think in the past one factor was that you could submit the blade for Hozon & Tokubetsu Hozon at the same shinsa session. So of course it was logical for good quality items to send for both. Now in the current system you will need to send Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon in different shinsa sessions. That might at least temporarily make some good items "just" Hozon before dealer or owner sends it for higher certification. As NBTHK currently has a monopoly in the certificate business and people like to seek higher papers it is logical that most good blades will go up in their certification system. Here are some old references. These two are to me extremely interesting items. Yoshimoto tachi - dealer made this Tokubetsu Hozon afterwards but 0 effect on price. Asking price was 5,200,000 yen and this is my favorite of these items https://www.samurai-...net/SHOP/V-1913.html Hatakeda Sanemori tachi - this was for sale at 5,000,000 yen asking price, very cool item https://web.archive....0/info/item/a428.htm Now these 2 are not something I am too much into, to me it seems crazy how attribution to top smith can create a huge price. Mumei katana attributed to Osafune Mitsutada, asking price was 6,900,000 yen https://web.archive.....net/SHOP/O-630.html Mumei katana attributed to Kiyomaro with 7,000,000 yen asking price (I was remembering 10M but it might have been another mumei Kiyomaro or my memory fails me as I don't track these more modern items) https://www.aoijapan...ei-yamaura-kiyomaro/ There have been some other amazing items too but they have not have had a public price listed online so I have no idea about their asking price. Of course one thing to consider is that asking prices can vary a lot. There was a flawed Ōdachi with Hozon paper that I was looking out for but it went out of my budget and ended up going bit over 2,000,000 yen. However very quickly it landed to Japanese dealer who had it for 5,800,000 yen asking price, and it was gone super fast.

All’s well that ends well! Just reading this whole thread for the first time. What a saga! And what a result! Great to see all the advice and cooperation here leading to a happy ending. Vive le/la NMB. (Is a message board masculine or feminine?)

John, you never cease to amaze me. 九八式軍刀拵　山本軍刀店製作

Another thread on here has been talking about brass type alloys and their appearance/patina. That discussion reminded me of this tsuba that has returned to me having had a short holiday elsewhere🙂 One side has been exposed to the light/atmosphere, the other side shrouded. It looks like it was hung via a very thin thread rather than boxed. The difference is quite spectacular, you would not believe they are sides of the same tsuba made from the same alloy. Anyone beat that for a stark contrast?

https://nihontoart.c...d-healthy-wakizashi/ This muramasa wakizashi, sold though. Original asking price was $37.500 usd

Hi again, I have just finished reducing prices on damn near every piece of kodogu on my site, typically by 20%. There be bargains here: https://japaneseswor...tegory/tsuba-kodogu/ Thanks, Grey Interested in something? Please contact me through my site, not by personal message on NMB.

Happens quite often: https://www.aoijapan.com/search/?_sfm_paper=保存刀剣&_sfm_price=1000000+20000000 Just to show a few examples. Many expensive Hozon blades were made by famous smiths. Some Muramasa tanto can go for up to 3 million yen or more. Greetings, Lex

Working from memory, but we have a few of these with the large one and a smaller number and some with a large 2. So it was proposed that may be there were a couple of inspectors using these numbers.

Steve: I find his prices to be a little high. And I think he is using the word gendaito in its literal sense (present day sword). There is no star stamp, made in 1944, I would assume showato. https://www.ebay.com/itm/405311634756? He is also selling a Kanenobu star stamped gendaito for twice that price - again, too high. But if he thought the Sukenobu was a true gendaito, he would probably ask for more. Just my two cents. John C.

High quality shakudo will repatinate itself given time. The lower the quality of the shakudo the greater the chance it will not recover back to where it was originally. In fact, even chemical inducement may end in disappointment. Good quality shakudo when repatinated will not only take but will continue to become richer in the depth of color and be evenly distributed. One of the keys to a properly restored piece is that the restoration cannot be detected even by sharp eyes, "doesn't look new."

Newly polished blades procedure Once a day for a week once a week for a month once month for a year should be cured by then

You know that to find a Gendaito in those mounts is extremely rare? So much so, you can just about assume it's a Showato. That is, until proven otherwise, but I'd be surprised.

Noshu ju (rather than Bishu ju).

Here is another, almost identical design, also on ebay. You can see the nunome ground is also coarse and badly finished, and both birds have a bit different inlays, gold and silver.

Here is the back.

Hi Peter, one has the impression this was cobbled together recently. The Ito is brand new, the fittings are pretty hideous, random Seppa, and the Kabutogane appears to be from a Koa Isshin Mantetsu Koshirae.

Here is another from the same group that I bought. It has the same heavy patina on one side and a similar vertical hanging mark This has nothing to do with a heavier patina being applied to just one side.

I sincerely hope it will show up finally! I can tell a story about what can happen in the postal world of the 21st century, quite a while after horse carriages and sail ships were in use: Some years ago, I bought an item off a NMB member in American Samoa - not a valuable object. His next bigger post station was more than 4.000 km away from his place, in Honolulu, Hawaii. Somewhere on the long way to me, the parcel was lost. After I was told that I could do nothing about it as the buyer, the seller made a claim and started a serious query. This was not successful, the package did not show up, and he got fully refunded - in addition to what I had paid him already. But he was a gentleman and sent me my money back. The story did not end there. After more than 2 months, to my surprise the parcel was brought to my door by regular post! In the end, I got it for free! S**t happens, but lucky things as well!

Yes, nice example of the Yamato logo. In Chris Bowen's list, it looks like this: But the stamps seem to only use the center portion:

Looks like the Yamamoto Gunto shop. See page 46 of the attached document. This stamp is also found in a few posts in you search it. Conway

A few poor images of some quite nice (and better) Wakizashi and Tanto that I’ll have at Birmingham on 16th February. Some papered. A selection of Koto, Shinto, Shinshinto and Shinsakuto…..many in near mint polish (but these images don’t show the detail very well……sorry!) (but the description cards will give you an idea) I will also have some decent tsuba, fuchi kashira and a few menuki sets. I’m there to sell my collection so no offer will offend me. Hope to see some of you there…..again! PS….sorry, I cannot take cards

It might be a good idea to change "Downvote" to "I don't agree with that" - it would be somewhat less aggressive for all. What say you Brian?

Have not checked thread, but did anyone recommend to you Markus Sesko’s Tosogu Classroom? If not, I think both you and Dee will benefit from it.

Im curious why how you came to interested in tsuba in the first place. Is it just tsuba or all tosogu? Personally, I think you have to ask yourself WHY? Here's some basic questions that may help you along your way: Why tsuba? Is it the art, history, value? What do you want to do with the tsuba you purchase? Own them to appreciate them or try to find good deals so you can trade/sell them for profit? What is your budget, how much are you trying to invest? Do you want to own many inexpensive tsuba, or a few high quality tsuba How deep do you want to get into it? Do you have access or plan to attend events, like NTHK and sword shows? Orlando, San Francisco, Chicago etc.... I think these are important for you to consider since we are not talking about items that are $10-$20 that can be found in relative abundance here in the states. Sure, there are plenty of dealers and private sellers, but unlike stamps, Japanese tsuba were only produced in Japan whereas stamps were made in countries all over the world and thus are likely going to be far more plentiful, not to mention span a price spectrum that makes them far more affordable. It seems you "like" tsuba for whatever the reason and I think thats great, but if you "loved" tsuba, I dont know if you would be struggling to decide if you should enter the club. So, that leaves just one last question, do you want to "collect" and spend your money on something you like, or something you LOVE? Just my $.02

I don’t even think collecting tsuba is difficult. Tsuba are plentiful and easily available. Prices can vary from a few $ to many thousands. However collecting “good” tsuba requires acquiring knowledge and developing the eye that enables you to apply that knowledge…..and the money needed. …..and what constitutes a “good” Tsuba (and its “$value”) will vary greatly from collector to collector. Some collect certain artists, certain schools, certain designs, certain periods, certain techniques, certain materials…..there is a huge variety to chose from.….or if you simply want to collect tsuba that simply appeal to you then there is nothing to stop you. Go buy some and see. If you decide it’s not for you then sell them. You will make financial mistakes (as many of us have) but you will learn from them. You will make errors of judgement but again you will learn and refine your eye. If however you want a hobby where you can look up that exact tsuba and ascertain its precise age, maker and price then maybe tsuba are not for you. I’m sure some of this has been said above already but my attention wandered a bit.

Let's not allow this to get into the negativity realm. You should collect Tsuba, if it interests you. But you are correct, it is a difficult hobby, and the learning curve will be steep. You could always try getting an affordable (to you) tsuba, and see how it interests you in-hand, and then decide after that. While apples and oranges are both fruits.. Apples are to oranges, what an old government stamp is to an antique oil painting. To each their own, my friend. Godspeed, -Sam

Vive La France. Everything is doable in France. We are capable of doing the impossible as well as the unthinkable. He can have a package that goes all the way around France even though there are only two logistics platforms on the road. It’s lived experience. The postal system in France is incredible but other companies aren't any better either. I'm crossing my fingers for you and hoping to get your lovely gift back. At least when you get it back, you'll have a nice contemporary story to add.

Yes, shaking the tree seems to work, I recived a message today that they will do their best to find out what happened. They mentioned a kind of twisted trick like the sword was sent back and back between 2 logistic plateforms like an endless loop... By this time I don't know if it was on purpose or an accident. Can't wait to finaly see it on my own. I'll send picture ASAP... Thank you all !

Yes, it probably was by the seller. At this point it's not a question of money for me...

First time I had this tanto in hand, after examining many good blades (I was about to buy a beautyfull Takada Katana in exquisite Hito Koshirae), my all body begun shivering. My wife never saw me so touched. In a way, it's my masamune... I can't explain this feeling.

Hi Brian, Remind me never mess with you! I wrote a very formal and factual mail to M Wahl, I also wrote a quite a snap paper letter to the La Post directors. I will gradualy try many of the mail adresses you found and probably go to police soon. I will alors call and go every day to the post office until they call the security... Maybe it could do something. Thank you Dee, thank you Brian, thank you all of you for the energy. Eric

Thank you all for your support : this really helps ! @ Dee, thank you so much for the contact I'll write right now. @Bruno, it was La Poste Colissimo Thanks to you, I'm taking courage to fight back ! I'll remember this, Best regards, Eric

Agree with John. The more inconvenient you make it for them, the more chance it will be magically found. Post bad reviews everywhere about the postal service on social media...email everyone in a high up position you can find (searching internet usually turns up some managerial emails) talking about the loss of a culturally important object, opening a police case and forwarding them the case number....just keep harassing them. I have found in the past that this really does sometimes help, and there is a chance it is found suddenly. Good luck and don't give up.

So sorry to hear this. Daimyo family history with early registration from 1951 too. Can we get a few more details like who the carrier was? I assume EMS. Were there any scans after it left Customs such as the local delivery office? It's situations like this that makes me think it's safer to ship papers separately. At least then you have some documentation in hand in case ownership has to be proved. Another suggestion is to pay the customs fees at the time of handover. For Fedex this can be paid in cash at the destination address or the local hub where a debit card is acceptable.