Tsuba casting molds ?

[Scogg]

Imagine acquiring your very first Tsuba, and you're wondering if it might be cast. You do some googling, and find yourself here with 19 pages to sift through - only to find a lot of arguments and hypothetical ideas. 

How frustrating that must be . 
Beating a dead horse is right...
-Sam

[Spartancrest]

4 hours ago, Scogg said:

only to find a lot of arguments and hypothetical ideas. 

Let's not forget plenty of images to compare and extensive research.  TBF

 

[Scogg]

True, and I think it could have been a valuable discussion. I guess my point was that anything worth while is a needle in a haystack now.
 

Here I am, not helping that situation . In hindsight, I should not have interjected. 

 

I re-read this today, it’s a good write up and very interesting. 

https://markussesko.com/2016/01/20/cast-sword-fittings/

 

-Sam 

[Robert S]

On 6/3/2025 at 7:41 PM, Scogg said:

I re-read this today, it’s a good write up and very interesting. 

https://markussesko.com/2016/01/20/cast-sword-fittings/

 

-Sam 

This is very interesting.  It definitely indicates that cast tsuba were being made in the 17th century, but only gives evidence for non-iron cast tsuba.  It would be interesting to see whether there is any evidence or examples of cast bronze/brass/shakudo tsuba survive.  Particularly, it would be interesting to catalogue the fragments of moulds found, and see if those can be matched to any existing tsuba, iron or not.

 

I love archaeology :-)

[OceanoNox]

That's the issue with this thread, as raised earlier (and I know I am contributing to the problem, but at this point, it's too late): all the interesting information is hard to find.

The reference to that paper (cast sword fitting in brass) has been given at some earlier point. Just like the mention of cast iron items, like chagama, and the process of doing it (cast the cast iron, then decarburize, finish the surface, then patinate it).

Cast iron tsuba are currently made by iai equipment maker Nosyudo, but I am not familiar with their process (I suspect it's similar to the one above).

 

Reference on non-ferrous cast tsuba in Nara: 

刀装具鋳型の三次元分析からみた近世鋳造技術の研究 (2018 年度科学研究費（奨励研究）研究成果報告書, 研究課題番号：18H00015)

[Bugyotsuji]

I was holding a yamagane/odo tsuba the other day and asked casually if these would have been cast. A few eyes flicked around the room, as if looking for higher confirmation, and then after a some pregnant seconds, 'yes' came the answer. A room full of artisans, too.

[ROKUJURO]

The blank of soft metal TSUBA is always cast with the exception of MOKUME GANE. Some are completely cast with decoration included, some of those are reworked then manually, and finished.
A bunch of different techniques.

Ford Hallam has often explained this.

[Brian]

Indeed. Do people think that makers purchased milled billets of material to machine down on their fancy milling machines before they started work on them? Ford has shown how blanks were cast, before they started work on the tsuba. Showing how soft metal tsuba were cast really does add nothing to this original topic. 

[Dan tsuba]

Hello all!

 

I know many of you are saying, “oh no, not again”!  But hey, give me a break.  I am an old retired guy that is really interested in this cast iron tsuba thing!

 

I found some good information I wanted to share about the different cast iron techniques that kettle makers use.

 

I am not saying that kettle makers made cast iron tsuba in the Edo period, although I personally believe that is a definite possibility.

 

“Nambu ironware is fashioned through two distinct techniques: Nama-gata, involving sand molds, and Yaki-gata, utilizing clay molds fired in a kiln. Given that this particular Tetsubin is crafted using the Yaki-gata method, only a limited number of pieces can be produced from a single mold. Hence, its rarity is noteworthy.”

From this website-

 

https://oitomi.com/products/nambu-ironware-iron-kettle-houju-matsuba-1-4l-shokado-by-traditional-craftsman-shingo-kikuchi?srsltid=AfmBOopBJIeSSTmAQuuQaBAvPDBuOrMEEYo2Bf-i0WiNYJbyHESCiai-

 

Also,

“<Process of Yakigata>

    Create a design and make a cross-section of it into a wooden model (mold plate).

    Use the wooden model to create a casting mold by spinning a potter's wheel while mixing sand and clay (mold turning).

    Attach patterns such as arare (hailstone) or sakura (cherry blossom) to the casting mold.

    Dry the casting mold and fire it at around 1200 degrees Celsius.

    Pour iron heated to 1400-1500 degrees Celsius into the casting mold.

    Remove the iron from the casting mold, remove the core, and fire it at 800-900 degrees Celsius (kiln firing).

    Polish the surface, bake the lacquer at 300 degrees Celsius, and apply color.

 

Compared to the manufacturing method called "nama-gata," which involves making molds only with river sand, the yakigata method requires a longer time for mold shaping and can only cast a few pieces from one mold. Consequently, iron kettles made using the yakigata technique tend to be more expensive. However, each Nambu iron kettle crafted using this traditional method exhibits a delicate and beautiful pattern, reflecting its unique charm that has been cherished since ancient times.”

From the below website-

 

https://oitomi.com/blogs/articles/the-world-of-nanbu-iron-kettles-by-traditional-craftsman-shingo-kikuchi?srsltid=AfmBOoplfwCzBcq09DCBYJ9nQT4bQcSy2NGsBTCdIabR6HMl3qEe8J8

 

Just some more insights I thought may be of interest to some.

 

Onward!

 

 

[Dan tsuba]

Just passing on this information I found on the internetj (hey, I have nothing better to do on a Sunday!).

 

I think some may find it of interest.

 

From a dealer in Japan on the below website-

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/tsubacastiron.html

 

“I think it is important to separate Iron tsuba into two kinds that Steel tsuba and Cast Iron tsuba.
Tsuba of Cast Iron

68mm x 62mm x 5.6mm

Sometimes cast iron tsuba seems a little small somehow. It may come from the shrinking of casting work. This piece may be a copy from a tsuba of Akasaka school or so, but the seppadai and kozuka/kogai holes are smaller than normal size.

When the seam mark was filed off, it is a little difficult to figure out the trick of cast iron tsuba.

By careful study, you may find that the rust condition is a little strange to steel and the cut out surface seems a little dull.


They look made in 18th century or 19th century. We have never seen cast iron tsuba from the Koto period (16th century or older)” 

 

 

[Spartancrest]

This may not fit in with this thread - but when did the NBTHK start certifying mass produced tsuba?   First off, I have no idea if the papers are "real" I can't read kanji but I recognise a mass produced "shippo" design that turns up in the thousands. https://www.jauce.com/auction/c1188041144 "Traditional Nagasaki" Early Edo Period Butterfly and Peony Design. A rare original Shippou Tsuba"  REALLY! 

 

 

see: https://www.katanacenter.com/316 Tsuba couple Daisho enamel.html  this company clearly states "First half of the Shōwa era 昭和" 

 

The incredibly "rare" ebay examples  https://www.ebay.com/itm/316158776912  https://www.ebay.com/itm/396607088190   https://www.ebay.com/itm/286198233512

Even more "rare" from Japan - https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u1055807796  https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n1186861675  and buy in bulk 

https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h1136698250 These are endless, mass produced - but hey, the papers are what people want to see. Papers separate the fool from his money.

[MauroP]

I've found questionable attributions in both NBTHK and NTHK (BTW the above is a NTHK paper, not NBTHK). But in some NTHK papers even the mere description of a tsuba is sometimes incompatible with the object shown in the accompany picture.

[MauroP]

About certifying mass produced tsuba, I wish to remind that "sanmai tsuba" or Kyo-kanagushi tsuba (wich weresurely mass produced) are commonly papered by NBTHK. Here the problem is that the NTHK paper states that the tsuba is from Edo age...

[Spartancrest]

3 hours ago, MauroP said:

The problem is that the NTHK paper states that the tsuba is from Edo age...

Do the papers mention who does the assessment - the actual person? If people had that information they might boycott that inspectors opinion. Who gets to judge the judges? Is there a test these people have to pass in order to make these "informed" opinions and are they ranked in any way? Clearly if someone is paying for these papers they could/should get their money back.

[MauroP]

3 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

Do the papers mention who does the assessment - the actual person?

That's the personal signets of the actual members of the shinsa.

[Dan tsuba]

So, from what I gather from MauroP, four experts thought that the mass produced tsuba shown in the post by Spartancrest was made in the  Edo period?

 

Anyway, here is an interesting thread from 2011 stating some information about cast iron tsuba and kettle makers (and some other interesting information)-

 

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/7626-tosa-kuni-ju-myochin-munetoshi/

 

Onward!

 

[Curran]

On 6/9/2025 at 7:34 AM, MauroP said:

That's the personal signets of the actual members of the shinsa.

 

As reliable Mauro says:   NTHK papers with the mark of the 4 judges. 

Don't ask me which. I don't read chops very well, though I was given one by my family in Japan.

Those "noodle bowl" chops are beyond me to read at this time.

 

This NTHK one does seem pertinent to the old discussion thread.

Hagihara-san was part of one of the NTHK shinsa teams for a long time. Up to 2004 to 2006??? , the papers were solid. I papered a few items with them back then.

Since then, I know little of their shinsa team.

 

(edit)

Papers look recent Reiwa era. Ie. They are relatively recent papers.

 

 

[Toryu2020]

Just to be clear this is an NPO paper and not the one and true NTHK...

 

-tch

[MauroP]

2 hours ago, Toryu2020 said:

Just to be clear this is an NPO paper and not the one and true NTHK...

I thought NPO (usually in brackets after NTHK) means "non profit organization". Surely I'm missing something...

[Toryu2020]

Mauro - there was a split in the NTHK several years back, the pretenders called themselves the NTHK (NPO) - this is their work...

[Spartancrest]

10 hours ago, Toryu2020 said:

the pretenders

    Yeah that would explain a lot! 

[Dan tsuba]

So here are some pictures of some tsuba with the same motif from this forum thread-

 

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/52786-silver-ring-in-tsubas/

 

It looks to me like the first picture shown is a cast iron tsuba and it is not done very welll and shows many inconsistencies (my opinion).

 

Whether the tsuba shown in the first picture here (which I believe is cast iron) was made in the Edo period or not is something that can probably never be determined.

 

But the fact that it has a fukurin on it and sekigane in the nakago-ana is of interest.

 

The other pictures shown are examples from that thread of well made hand forged and hand cut tsuba (also my opinion) with the same motif.

 

Thoughts?

 

[FlorianB]

I don’t think it’s cast. As I wrote in the other thread my idea is that this Tsuba is just in the state of an intermediate step. The basic form was produced but a final exact execution is missing for what reason ever. Maybe a customer was fond of the blurred design. 

 

The second example is of poor quality and the Akasaka-label on the third is nonsense.

This Yodo-bridge-design is typical Kyo-Sukashi (or later Daigoro) and the gilding must be a subsequent addition.

[Dan tsuba]

Hi Florian,

 

Thanks for your post and your opinions about that tsuba.

 

I get it and understand what you are saying.

 

I quote part of your post below-

“I don’t think it’s cast. As I wrote in the other thread my idea is that this Tsuba is just in the state of an intermediate step. The basic form was produced but a final exact execution is missing for what reason ever. Maybe a customer was fond of the blurred design.”

 

I don’t know.

 

It just looks cast iron to me with several discrepancies and inconsistencies (and I am probably wrong).

 

I have included a picture of that tsuba with the discrepancies outlined in blue.

 

Notice the cutouts on the railing of the bridge are of different sizes and shapes.

 

The handles of some of the buckets are of different sizes.

 

The cutouts of the waterwheel are of different sizes and shapes.

 

It just looks to me like this thing was made by pouring cast iron into a mold.

 

If you look at the same motif tsuba included in the other pictures on my previous post (which I believe are hand forged and hand cut), you won’t find those discrepancies.

 

Anyway, I don’t know.  This is just my best guess!

 

 

[Dereks]

There’s no indication that this is a cast — it’s simply low in quality, that’s all.

 

 

[Dan tsuba]

Hi Derek!

 

So I believe what you are saying is that this is a low quality tsuba and those discrepancies I noted and outlined in blue in my previous post were hand cut on a hand forged tsuba?

 

Well, I appreciate your opinion.

[Brian]

This is not cast, and your "discrepancies" are nothing to do with casting. Just looking at it carefully will show there are no signs of casting.

[FlorianB]

As I understand the production of sukashi Tsuba the design was at first crudely holed using chisels while in a red hot condition. Drilling was invented not before the 19th cent.. 
After cooling the plate the holes have had been filed into the final shapes and the plate itself was filed or polished, too. 

 

Thus I think this particular tuba is a rare reference material presenting the intermediate as a final result.

[Hokke]

While I am unfamiliar with the casting of iron, I am familiar with casting in general. On the one hand, I can see Dans point of view. He is skeptical that someone would only partially "finish" this tsuba. So many lines on that tsuba are nice and clean, but the holes are clearly crude. The problem with this idea is that if all the other lines of the tsuba are nice and crisp from the casting method, there is no reason why the holes he referenced wouldn't also be nice and clean. One would have to assume that the original mold would have to be poorly cut in order to produce a poor casting. So then the question would be, why would a craftsman go to the trouble of producing such clean lines in some parts of the mold and not others? 

 

It seems reasonable to me that what we have here is a an "unfinished" tsuba. Not unfinished as in incomplete, but unfinished with respect to the level of the finishing process. This could have been for a variety of reasons like cost, time, customer request or injury. 

[ROKUJURO]

3 hours ago, Hokke said:

...... One would have to assume that the original mold would have to be poorly cut in order to produce a poor casting....

 

It seems reasonable to me that what we have here is a an "unfinished" tsuba. Not unfinished as in incomplete, but unfinished with respect to the level of the finishing process..... 

Molds were not cut as it is possible nowadays in die casting.  In former times (and in Japan) you needed a model first which was then copied in a mold made from a mixture of clay and fine sand.

In a different casting process, a 'positive' wax model was made that remained in a mold. It evaporated as soon as the molten metal was poured into the mold. 

BELOW: Is this an unfinished painting then?