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Large Shin Gunto


PNSSHOGUN

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Just how uncommon are large Shin Gunto over 40 inches overall? The largest I have is 41 inches with a 27" suriage Koto blade, I have seen one that was 43 inches (third picture) that I regret not buying. Do any of the collectors here have unusually large swords in their collection?

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Tbh, I think you’re the first I’ve heard of who is looking at OAL in koshirae vs nagasa.

 

The longest showa period blade I’ve seen had a 34” nagasa. So i imagine a 35”-36” saya & 10”-11” for tsuba, seppa, and tsuba. I have some blades with 27”+ nagasa but never paid any attention to mounted OAL. I guess I could check.

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Wow Brandon that would've been an absolute monster! Considering the average height and build of Japanese officers back then anything over 27" Nagasa is unusual to be comfortably carried. My sword has an aluminium Saya, a normal steel Saya on one of these large blades would be no joke to lug around.

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Hi John,

I think it is very unusual to have a mounted sword over 40" in length. It is less unusual to have a longer blade in the 40 inch  mounts.

For example...under the RJT scheme the longest blade allowed was 69.7 cm (27 7/16 in). The tang had to be 21.2 cm (8 11/32 in). The length of the mountings are not stated.

I have one such RJT blade by Kunishiro of Kyoto and the blade is 69.8 cm (27 1/2 in) so slightly over- max-length and the tang is 21 cm (8 8/32 in) so slightly under length.

The overall length of the mountings is 99.4 cm (39 2/16 in)....so under 40 in.

Not sure if this helps, but I can say I have seen long blades in normal length mounts but not in the noticeably over-length mounts you have.

Regards,

Later edit...not Kyoto...Aomori (sorry).

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 To the best of my knowledge, some very long mounts were made for katana during the Bakumatsu period, and were in fact regarded as a political statement of sorts. 

 I wonder if this had an influence, as in long gunto being made in imitation of these, either as a homage, or as a reference to the politics of the time when Japan was under threat from the West..

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Interesting that despite being 29" Nagasa the overall mounts are still around 41", it seems the Tsuka is rarely dramatically larger than other examples, even in the swords I have there is not much discrepancy between the Tsuka of large & normal Gunto.

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  • 4 weeks later...

G'day Guys,

 

Here are some shots of my large shin gunto. It is just under 41.5 inches overall with a 29 inch nagasa and a steel saya. Looking at my small collection there appears to be an inverse relationship between tsuka length and blade length. My shortest blade has the longest tsuka and vice versa. Looks like there was an effort to keep them all a similar overall length, despite the blade length. This one is missing its sarute. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what type of sarute it would most likely have been?

 

Cheers,

Bryce

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Thanks John,

Thinking about it some more, the fact that the sarute is gone suggests the original was most likely silk cord. I think it is unlikely that a metal sarute would simply fall out or fail.

Cheers,

Bryce

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Thanks John,

Thinking about it some more, the fact that the sarute is gone suggests the original was most likely silk cord. I think it is unlikely that a metal sarute would simply fall out or fail.

Cheers,

Bryce

Bryce,

 

While that is possible, it doesn't explain them all. NCO Type 95's used almost exclusively metal sarute, yet the majority of them in circulation today show up without them. I've never heard anyone say why they go missing. Another possiblity is that when the Allies forced the Japanese to surrender their gunto, many would "deface" them to some degree - rank tassels were removed (maybe removing the sarute in the process?), family crests scratched off, guys turning in rifles often scratched off (or attempted to) the Imperial chrysanthimum stamp. Just an idea.

 

My dad's Mantetsu still had the stump of the cloth sarute that was originally there, along with a tiny metal wedge that secured it in the barrel screw. So, it was easy to decide which kind to refit it with. If yours doesn't have any pieces inside, then it's really up to you to decide which kind you like. No right or wrong in that.post-3487-0-87693600-1556242448_thumb.jpg

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  • 2 months later...
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