Peasant Polish- Opinions

[ancientnoob]

I have been comparing prices on nihonto polish for my very humble sword and I came across these folks. Their prices and services seem uniquely inexpensive. Does any one have any experience with these folks? Care to share? Thanks all.

 

 

https://sites.google.com/site/sfswordsociety/togi

[Mark]

you should check the previous posts. I think there is a lot of information and comments. Be careful when considering who you use. It is wise to ask here.

 

Ask some on this board if they have used this service.

[GregD]

...run the other way!

[Stephen]

+1

[ancientnoob]

...run the other way!

 

Have they messed up people's swords? Did you have a bad experience? I would like to hear about it?

 

I found several back threads were this orginzation was mentioned. One member got a very good attribution from them and seemed pleased. I haven't found anything on the internet about them being a bad or scam service.

 

I have found several folks who mentioned that they are "controversial."

 

 

I don't know why? Noone has elaborated on a personal experience. I am eager to here what you all think, I am just leery of what they call "playa hatin."

 

Thanks to all thus far.

[ancientnoob]

Reading their site it seems that they use an early 20th century type polish called Kenma. What is the story on that technique?

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Nathan,

You will not find any experienced collector who has experience with this San Francisco Sword Society because anyone with experience knows enough to stay as far from them as possible. They don't have proper training and the little bit of their site I just read is nothing but hooey. Do yourself and your sword a big favor; stay away.

Grey

[b.hennick]

+1 What Grey said. Is it not a ninja center as well???

[cuttingedge59]

Nathan,

As the other board members have stated stay away, The guy drives around in a car avertising a ninja school and has been seen in public dressed in full samurai armour complete with swords.Even seen pics on his web site . Pretty much says it all. Was tempeted myself once , asked the questions of the board and stayed away. Found feed back on other sword sites and they seem to be worse than Roush , Years waiting and have a habit of making peoples property disappear.

 

Have a look at David Hofhines site , Seems to be a straight up guy and comes with a good rep.

 

http://www.swordpolisher.com/kensei.html

 

Regards,

Chris

[Justin Grant]

David is not a traditionally trained polisher, he is better than most, but not what you send Nihonto to.

 

Contact Bob Benson or there are several people on here, including Chris Bowen who can help you locate a person to do this for you. It will cost money, and anything of worth has a price. If you value your blade, don't be tempted in spending pennies when it calls for dollars.

[seattle1]

Hello:

I know nothing of that organization or the persons involved, but it is untrue that there are no skilled polishers in the USA. Jimmy Hayashi in San Francisco completed an entire apprentice training in Japan, and there is a similarly trained man in British Columbia. I do not know the particulars of the training of the BC man, but in the Newsletter of the JSS/US, Vo. 31, No's 4-5-6 I published a ten page interview with Jimmy about his background, training (he was admitted at a trainee by the good offices of the late Dr. Sato), and his polishing experiences in Japan. There are other excellent polishers in the US even though they may not have a full formal student training in Japan. Bob Benson stands foremost and is the only other one I can mention by name and from experience, however there are others who are also very good and very cautious and conscious of what they are doing, so ask around. Another source of top quality polishing is of course to send the blade to Japan; again ask around.

At the other extreme are entirely unqualified folks, the worst of which use sandpaper! So again be careful and ask around. I would advise using no one without the endorsement of an experienced collector.

Arnold F.

[Curran]

SFswordsociety/togi has long been regarded as a not so secret society of Haight-Ashbury tie-dye ninjas.

Descriptions by friends at SF festivals say they are just short of manga buffoonery.

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Do not confuse them with Jimmy Hayashi, whose fine workmanship I got to study a bit in Tampa this year. Some nice work on Enju blades belonging to an LA area doctor.

[Soshin]

Contact Bob Benson or there are several people on here, including Chris Bowen who can help you locate a person to do this for you. It will cost money, and anything of worth has a price. If you value your blade, don't be tempted in spending pennies when it calls for dollars.

 

Hi Everyone,

 

My advice to the person who started this topic is just to buy Nihonto in good polish. The polish doesn't need to be perfect but just good enough to see and study all the major details (i.e. hada, hamon, boshi, etc.). I started this policy back about seven years ago and it has served me very well and forces me to save more money for a purchase.

 

Never dealt with Chris Bowen but have met him in person at the NTHK-NPO shinsa at the Tampa show and seems like a great guy. I sent a tsuba with a rain dragon design back a year ago to Bob Benson for NBTHK shinsa submission. Here is a link to photos of my tsuba: http://www.tsubaotaku.com/#!Higo-Tsuba-/zoom/c1jbk/i0mdh. It waited about six months in a safe in Japan when his agent forgot about it. His agent is a very elderly Japanese man that makes me feel bad when I press the topic of my tsuba when the man's wife or son passes away. The tsuba passed NBTHK shinsa and was issued Hozon papers to Higo in December 2013. I paid the shinsa fee in February 2014 right before the Tampa show. Right now I am not in the mood to send anything to Bob until he gets a new agent in Japan. I talked to Bob by telephone many times and in May and he didn't know the status of my tsuba in Japan. He wanted me to mail something for the June NBTHK shinsa but I declined as I wanted my rain dragon tsuba back first. This is just my experience take it or leave it. Not sure the same thing would happen with a sword but question that comes to my mind why chance it. In the past I have used Bob Benson submission services for other tsuba without this much trouble. My Japanese wife has advised me to not to send anything more to Bob Benson as he does charge a broker fee for each item on top of the standard shinsa and shipping fees. I will likely just buying something off of his website as he is a nice guy and has personally contributed to my understand of the Nihonto and Tosogu via the many NBTHK lectures at the different shows around the USA. I hope you find my advice and information about my experience helpful.

 

P.S. I wanted to add this to better make things clear so that there is no confusion. Based upon some of the replies this already occurred. (Gotta love the Internet. ) Starting last year after the rain dragon was sent and lost by the very elderly Japanese agent I told Bob that he is no longer allowed to send any of my tsuba to him. Bob is cool with this and is willing to hand carry my tsuba into Japan for submission and later for pick up. This basically means that when I see him at the shows I ask him if he is going to Japan anytime soon and if he can submit one of my tsuba and pick it up a few months later. I also remind him not to send my tsuba to his agent. This was done very nicely last year with my high end Nanban tsuba: http://www.tsubaotaku.com/#!Nanban-Sukashi-Tsuba-/zoom/c5om/image2px.

[pcfarrar]

David,

 

Would advise you to use Paul Martin for shinsa services. There is no one better, he has good prices, and excellent service.

 

Peter

[Soshin]

Hi Peter,

 

Sent you a PM don't want to hijack this topic with my own problems.

[seattle1]

Hello:

I do not believe it is fair or proper to use this thread, which asked a question about polishing, to introduce the aside of papering a tsuba through Bob Benson or issues related to his agent/helper in Japan. Bob and several skilled people who have worked under his direction in Honolulu do extraordinarily good work, and if one wishes he can send a blade to Japan for you and arrange for every service it might need.The seems to me to be the information sought in the initial interrogative! That is not to say that others cannot polish well here or act as an agent; I only raised Benson based on personal and favorable knowledge about his services, and the same thing goes for Jimmy Hayashi.

Arnold F.

[Brian]

And puts me in the difficult position on that fine line between censorship and fair play.

So I will remind people to please stay on topic. Bob has a great reputation, as do the others mentioned in this thread (besides the SF Ninjas)

There is also Kunitaro san's polishing service.

Don't skimp when it comes to polishing!

 

Brian

[Stephen]

+1 what AF said, what that had to do with OP is out of line....maybe you should edit David and then mods can remove this post.

[Brian]

Let's just drop it. Not going to start removing every off topic post. Said it before, every single dealer has had a bad experience. Draw from past compliments and comments.

I believe enough has been said about the original post. Do not use them.

 

Brian

[Uechi]

When it comes to sword polishing the old adage holds true " You get what you pay for". Pay low prices and get low quality. Though there is a little difference in sword polishing rates some polishers are far superior to their competition. Do some research and you will quickly see who is good, who is mediocre and who are just plain crooks." Caveat Emptor."

 

JDromm

[ancientnoob]

All,

 

I certainly do appreciate ewveryone's opinion. I certainly will not go with the SF ninjas. I will also investigate all the gentleman mentioned here, and the lead provided by Daniel in PM. I'm not crazy about sending my sword overseas and waiting over a year, this might be common place in the hobby but outwardly it seems nuts to me. (I dont think will remember what my sword looked like..jk) Maybe I will contact one or more of these polish guys and see if they offer a poor man service, I doubt my sword is worth half the cost of full polish but that still does not deter me. I am not in it to polish and flip it. It is something I will hand to my son and say, "son, this is a REAL Samurai sword, sell it and the Oni will get you." Again I appreciate all you folks coming out and helping me realize (more so) the significance of not cheaping out on polish. I certainly dont want to send my sword to a polisher wait two years and find out its been for sale on the 'bay. Yikes, I would die. I have enoyed looking at the work of all the various polishers thus far.

 

@Brian/ Others

 

I see a gentleman went a little off topic and I see it as being fine. I suppose sending various items overseas for different reasons is pertinent. I also found it a learning experience. I learned that there are agents involved, the shinsa papers all sortsa things.

[Guido]

My Japanese wife has advised me to not to send anything more to Bob Benson as he does charge a broker fee for each item on top of the standard shinsa and shipping fees.

My wife of 25 years is Japanese, too. Having said that, I a) don't understand what relevance the nationality of a spouse has in regard to this topic, and b) what's wrong with being paid for services rendered? Do you work for free (except transportation reimbursement)?

[Jean]

Agreed with Guido, you cannot send a sword to NBTHK shinsa without going through an agent who will take a fee.

[Soshin]

Hi Jean,

 

Wasn't going to reply and I even edit my post to try and avoid confusion please read it. Would anyone pay any fee to have something that is part of their collection lost in a foreign country for 6-8 months?

 

P.S. This is my final reply. The subject is now closed with the exception I still want my tsuba!

[cabowen]

Few people realize the time that importing/exporting and submitting for shinsa entails. There is paperwork, the process takes time as there are always other people in line as well, and the venues are distant. Sometimes crazy things can happen- like customs holding a tsuba because someone thinks it is governed by the same laws as swords and needs a license (happened to me twice). If you know the ins and outs of the process, it usually goes smoothly, but even then, it takes time and patience to jump through all the hoops.

[nihonto1001]

What about the sword? Is it even worth having polished? Remember, it can still be an artifact in its patina. Not all swords, even old ones, should be polished. Time period, flaws, health...all play a part in choosing a good nihonto candidate for restoration. I think polishing should be reserved for the best of swords. The rule of thumb is, if the finished product will be valued more than, the price of the sword plus the cost of the polish, then consider it.

 

Bob Benson, who was aforementioned, is an excellent appraiser for this determination.

 

Sending your sword for a bad polish is like throwing your money out the window. There is also a good chance they will ruin the artifact.

 

-Captain Obvious

[Soshin]

Hi Jon and Captain Obvious,

 

I completely agree. Has the sword in it's current state been photographed and discussed on NMB? Is it worth even a peasant polish? If there is such a thing as a peasant polish.

[Darcy]

My Japanese wife has advised me to not to send anything more to Bob Benson as he does charge a broker fee for each item on top of the standard shinsa and shipping fees

 

Just further on this part, if you are hiring someone to handle your sword and see it through shinsa, it is normal that they charge fees. The shinsa fee is for the NBTHK or NTHK, the shipping fees are for the shipper, and the other fees are charged for a reason.

 

1. someone is packing and sending your item to Japan

2. someone has to pick it up in Japan and run it through the import process

3. someone has to fill out the forms and submit to the organization

4. someone has to pick it up after

5. someone has to de-register it, pack it, and ship it back out

6. someone has to receive it in the USA, split the shipment, and send back to the owners

 

On top of the work, there has to be a profit motive, otherwise there is no reason for them to provide the service.

 

If you're not happy with the service, of course, it's better to find someone else. But, I just want to point out that you have to be expecting someone to be charging some kind of brokering fee for providing these services.

[ancientnoob]

Hi Jon and Captain Obvious,

 

I completely agree. Has the sword in it's current state been photographed and discussed on NMB? Is it worth even a peasant polish? If there is such a thing as a peasant polish.

 

Yes the sword has been discussed on the NMB. Many would not polish it, because of the cost venture. Many would argue the a polish is more than the sword is worth. It is worth more to me than what someone would be willing to pay for it. I have no intention to resell the piece. It has sentimental value to me. I am not into swords to flip and make a profit. The sword found me and now I am its custodian. I would not want to ruin the sword, hence why I asked ya'll guys help.

 

I thank you all for your 2 Yen.

[Brian]

Suggest checking with Kunitaro san in his polishing service thread, and seeing what he can offer.

 

Brian