Uechi

For whom? So people that are labeled as experts by themselves or by others are always right? I Have no problem being wrong. I've been wrong before and I will be wrong again. What I won't abide is someone that is mean spirited. There is a difference in being critical as you were and telling someone they are ignorant. So what's the point? Everybody is free to believe to comment. This turned into to a ego match over who knows what. I relent I'm stupid. I'm done with the topic. I'm finished with comments that continue to go nowhere

I am afraid that in this case you did not meet both requirements. Too meet them, you must know what you buy. Lots is there a magic number?

I am afraid that in this case you did not meet both requirements. Too meet them, you must know what you buy. Do you know the word bugger off? If your idea of helping is telling me I'm a moron you lose. Tosogu like Nihonto is an on going learning process. Believe it or not I have purchased several items that have been evaluated by people with more knowledgeable then you or me. Tell me truly that every time you buy an item you know exactly what you are buying and I will tell you you're a liar. It is an on going learning experience and mistakes have been made. In the case of this tsuba I had doubts but it is worth the price to get all this fury over a purchase. In any event, I'm done responding to people that may know more then me but are still pseudo experts

Grey Agree but I didn't buy for my collection. I had doubts about whether it was real or not and bought it to study. At 98 bucks I'm not out a lot. I sent photos to Bob Haynes. I'll be curious what he has to say.

You should ask this legitimate dealer to make you an offer on it. And exactly why would I do that? If he offered more then $98 would that make it real? The dealer in question is a friend and has over 25 years experience. I'm not adverse to opinions or criticism but I need more inputs before I write the tsuba off as certainly junk

As is apparent I'm no expert that being said it is a mistake to write off E-Bay. Lots of junk but now and then good items and if you are smart and a little lucky you can do well.

No, and no. With all the museum websites and nihonto dealer websites and nihonto chat websites and nihonto information websites and nihonto books available there really is no excuse to get things like this so wrong, other than mistaking temptation for opportunity. Don't feel too bad about this, instead, turn this into something positive and take this as your initiation fee, tuition, lesson learned. The key is not to repeat the same lesson over again, keeping in mind that in addition to outright reproductions there's a lot of 'real' but 'old junk' just the same for sale out there that presents additional bumps and potholes on this path of collecting and learning. Study the good stuff. Sorry legitimate dealer said it was genuine so there you go. I'll fly it by some other sources just for the heck of it. Either way I'm not crying over a small mistake. Thanks for you inputs

Interesting since I have opirions from members and other sources that disagree in any event it didn't cost me a lot of money so if is in fact a phony I'm not out a lot and lesson learned

Appears to be genuine and worth more then the purchase price ($98). Any ideas on the school?I assume mid top late EDO but I really don't know.

Andy Quirt is an amazingly knowledgeable dealer with a good sense of humor and an honest heart. I'm proud to call him a friend. JDromm

You have the option of submitting the blade to a qualified polisher where he can open a "window" for evaluation. It is basically a small portion of the blade that is polished enough to reveal details hidden by scratches, rust and other corrosion and won't cost you a ton of money. Once that is done you can decide with the help of an expert/s whether it is worth submitting it for a full polish and shinsa. JDromm

So does the Tsuba fit..? We digress from the original patination question.. Barrie B. Not without a lot of seppa

Here's a old photo of the saya The other side of the saya is black

Here's a scan of the tsuka

I'll attempt top take pictures of the saya. The color scheme is red and black. The saya is missing the horn kurikata. The sori is not shallow?. The wakizashi that goes into this saya is a Naginatanaoshi. The tsuba that was with saya ( see picture above ) does not have saya-dome-ana nor does the saya have a Satsuma Kaerizumo.Note I have copy of Zusho Ichiro's book "Satsuma Koshirae". There are numerous photos of tsubas without saya-dome-ana.

The tsuba appears to be a Taira Clan Mon the " Butterfly" Could it have been made by someone not eluding to that clan? Of course but the design motif sure reflects that clans mon. It was with a Satsuma saya. If anything, I would expect the saya to have a Satsuma style tsuba. Namely a "Cross in a Circle," the Mon of the Shimazu Clan or a non clan design. Is it possible that you have a Satsuma saya with a butterfly tsuba? Yes anything is possible. I'm no expert.

I have an old sand iron tsuba probably late Muromachi or early Edo that was mismatched with a Satsuma saya. The theme is a Taira Clan Butterfly. Not worth much money but interesting to me. Unfortunately it was cleaned to the point where all black iron oxide has been removed and it is shiny ( see picture ). I've decided I am going to slow rust blue the tsuba using Pilkington Classic Blue. I'll post a picture of the results. JDromm

Obviously some one is under the influence of mind altering substances, 38K really? JDromm

I'm not looking for exact dates or hair splitting just a general agreed upon time period ( by most experts ) on what delineates Ko Kangobyoe from Kangobyoe. Like I stated, there are references to Kangobyoe School but not much on early smiths i.e. Ko Kangobyoe. It obvious that there is some distinction or the Tokobetsu Hozon attribution would have just been Kangobyoe without a Ko.

That is exactly why the question. The Japanese Sword Society lists Ko KongoByoe Smiths as Ryosai 1234,Jitsuna 1240, Sairen as 1278 Moritaka as 1260 and Morikuni as 1270. Shoshin.Com shows Moritaka 1293 and Morikuni as 1278 but doesn't mention a "Ko KongoByoe". I tend to agree with your opinion that Ko Kongobyoe was late Kamakura to sometime in the Nambokucho. I know unfortunately this is not an exact science just hoping I can get some kind of consensus on a time frame for the early/Ko Kongobyoe. Thanks for the inputs JDromm

I'm looking for a time frame for Ko Kangobeiyo. I am currently awaiting delivery of my Naginatanaoshi wakizashi from Japan. It received Tokubetsu Hozon in the NBTHK Shinsa. Some information on Kangobeiyo school indicates the majority of extant nihonto were made in Nanbokucho period through early Muromachi. Those references however are to Kangobeiyo not Ko Kangobeiyo. It is my understanding that the designation "KO" in this context means "early" I assume that that designation would put the nihonto in the mid to late Kamakura period ( approximately 1234 to 1270 ). I base this on the delineation of early smiths from that school. I would appreciate someone with more knowledge giving me a valid definition of the time frame not my conjecture

I had the same problem with a sword that went to shinska in sept.It appears that for some reason Fedx has decided not to accept nihonto.

Anybody have a three dollar bill?

Very nice display. Unless you have alarm systems and are locked and loaded I hope you lock this up in a safe at night. If you don't sooner or later you will be robbed.

Lots of helpful experts and people that are newbies. Before you spend money on a so called expert for money try an expert for free. The only cost are good photos.