Bruce Pennington

@Stegel Seems long and skinny. The drag is strangley shaped. Maybe a Type 32? They made 2 models, KO - longer for cavalry, and Otsu - shorter for artilery/foot soldiers. Edit: On closer look, the end is rounded, but the very end of the drag is just darker for some reason. Quite large drag, though, like a 32.

Interesting. It is amazing the things people will fake.

Trystan, I think it might be equally possible, in this example, that what we are seeing is a repair to a damaged nakago. For the diagonal mark on the original blade of the thread, everyone has pretty well covered the point - the massive majority of Mantetsu mune have this mark. I don't even have to do a scan of my files to say that. So, like Trystan's conclusion, probably original SMR Mantetsu, but when and where the bohi was added cannot be known. The polish removed any chance of old patina in the groove, but even if it had been there, we still wouldn't know if the factory did it, or a post-production shop did it for a customer. Enjoyable discussion guys, thanks for tossing it around!

Well crap. They actually filed off the serial number!!!

There are some Chinese fakes with civil tsuba, but I'm not leaning that direction with these. None of them are on faked swords and they all have appropriate age. If they were on fake swords I'd lean that way, but these aren't. As to the quality, while we'd like to think the perfectionist culture of Japanese sword manufacture was unfailing, it's just not the case. There are many sword fittings with lower quality work to be found.

OMG!!! Peter, that is a first. Now, the hi could have been a customization after manufacture. He could have had a sword shop add it. This also could have been added recently when the polish was done. Or, as with the few custom SMR Mantetsu we've seen, it was a customer request from the factory. No way to know, but it does look good, doesn't it!!! Hey, any chance of getting a link to the original post. That serial number is quite faint. Clearly a "NA" but the number is too faint to read. Sometimes by going to the original site, it's just a hair more clear. If it's an auction that you'd like to keep quiet about, please just send it to me via PM. @Itomagoi

Thanks Rob! Good examples. Wonder what that document is? It doesn't look like a surrender tag. And why would someone have affixed a tassel to it?

Interesting mention of this very thing in Jake Adelstein's "Tokyo Vice" He's describing the Yakuza: "Another large faction is made up of dowa, the former untouchable caste of Japan that handled butchering animals, making leather goods, and doing other “unclean” jobs. Even though the caste system is gone, racism toward dowa remains. Adelstein, Jake. Tokyo Vice (Vintage Crime/Black Lizard) (p. 87). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition."

Rats. Didn't know, thanks.

Thanks for the added pics Eric! I cannot speak to the age of your blade, other guys will have to opine on that. The tsuba is only the 2nd one I've seen of this style. It could be that both yours and the other one I've seen are simply from a shop that made this style tsuba and used them when fitting a personal civil blade in military mounts. It also could be a 4th variant of the tsuba specifically made for the Gunzoku - the civilian branch of the military. If you don't know about them, just google the term. But they wore distinct military-looking uniforms and performed many functions for the active military. They had their own rank nomenclature that had equivalencies to military rank in it levels of hierarchy. I'm adding the three known variants of their tsuba for comparison. Quite a nice gunto you have there!

Thanks Steve. Downloaded and filed, now!

I'll check with @Grey Doffin and see if he has a copy, thanks!

Those are great, Gabe, thanks!

Steven, Do you have this blade? If not, do you have a full photo showing the cutting tester's kao at the bottom. Also need his name if you have it, thanks!

Found one by Nagahisa, 1655, posted by @Ed HERE.

I've gotten interested in collecting the kao (kakihan) of cut testers. I have 4 on file now, and they have a particularly unique style that sets them apart from swordsmith kao. They all have horizontal lines on top and bottom and the writing between at casual glances seem the same, but with tiny variations to fit each tester's name, I suppose. If anyone has cut tester mei other than these 4, please post. I'd like to study them further, and collect their kao. Also, there has been a book mentioned on a thread somewhere that is about kao, in general. If anyone knows the name, please post. I probably need to get a copy. Thanks! Rokubei 1650 Narihisa 1660 Yoshizane (date?) Hisahide (date?)

Good info! I have never paid much attention to the kakihan (kao) of these cut-testers. I have 4 on file now, and give them brief mention the Stamps Doc. But after taking a look at the 4, they seem to have a particular "style" to their kao that sets them apart from swordsmith kao. 3 of the 4 have horizontal lines on top and bottom. And even the stylized writing inside have similarities that are slightly different from smith kao. I think I'll start a thread on these to see if I can get more examples. I know there is a book out there on kakihan, as they are seen on other pieces, like tsuba. If anyone recalls the name of it, please post. I probably should look it up. Rokukei Hisahide Narihisa

Thanks Rob, that's definitely a new one for the files! I'll have to expand the religious symbology section in the Stamps Doc. I have enjoyed learning new stuff as I come across these things. Daikokuten was a god of "fortune and fertility". The two bundles he's standing on are bags of rice. He carries a mallet that creates things he wants and inside the bag is a fertility statue with large erect penis. Here's a couple of things from Wikipedia clarifying what the blade engraving is trying to capture:

I think you’re right about that John. I never noticed it until you pointed it out, but it looks like a practice of this particular shop to put their owners name on it.

John @PNSSHOGUN is the guy to ask.

Nice Steve! The Gifu stamp on the left side is thought to be the early logo of the Seki Shoten Co. Last observed serial number with the Gifu is 80247, while the earliest observed Seki Shoten number is 82009 (thanks to Thomas - @Kiipu) Seki Shoten

One for the record books, for sure! Thanks Trystan!

Dave, Your guess is literally as good as mine. There are many examples of religious emblems; dedications to gods; good luck slogans. We have absolutely no documented proof of the purpose of many of these things we find on nakago. I will caveat that with a tid-bit we do have - the painted numbers. Here is a quite famous photo of several blades during production and assembly that have sequentially painted numbers. It is the one small bit of evidence we have that backs up the belief that these are put there by the factories and/or fitters:

@Swords Steve, Does your fuchi have 3 or 4 stamps? I had a Nagoya 95, #10506, that had a 4th stamp. The coppers were produced for about 1 year beginning in fiscal year 1937 (so April, 1937). So that puts the first year of aluminum handles in 1938. I don't have production numbers for the early years, maybe @Stegel or @Shamsy can say, but yours was likely made early 1939. Those guys will correct me on that, I'm sure. "Value" - that always depends on each particular collector. To me, it makes them more attractive. Yours is in amazing condition! I would certainly remove the cosmoline, personally. If you do a search of NMB, "remove cosmoline" you'll get plenty of pages describing how to do it. You won't hurt the blade.

That actually looks like what we're seeing here! Gareth, I have seen many late-war gunto that were still done with quality workmanship. Not unusual.