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Thoughts On Recent Purchase Gendaito

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#1 Rei Sinn

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 08:26 PM

Hi everyone! I'm new to this forum and I wanted to share with you a Mumei I just picked up here at the gun show. Funny when I found it at the show the blade was lathered in cosmoline. No one knew quite to make of it, such as making it out to be a NCO type 95 or something unauthentic. I'm curious if anyone here has any particular thoughts on its origin, swordsmith, etc.

I believe it's a Showa era Gendai with a beautiful Kesho Yasuri patterned Nakago. The back of the mune has a couple stamps, but otherwise no Seki, no Showa or Star stamps that I could find. The Nagasa measures 26 1/2 inches and the whole blade measures around 34 inches. The hamon appears to be Suguha with some form of ashi. There is very fine hada, probably itame I would guess. The "type 95 blood groove" was in my opinion hand carved Bohi in Ryo-Chiri.

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#2 Rei Sinn

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 08:31 PM

More pics.

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#3 SAS

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 08:51 PM

It looks to be a well made sword; I am surprised that it is mumei.


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#4 Tom Darling

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 10:19 PM

? Unless I am going blind, I don't see a hamon.nor hada. Yasuri makes  it look interesting. Good luck.

 

Tom D..



#5 Rei Sinn

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 10:24 PM

Yes the hamon is very subtle!

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Rei

#6 Dave R

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:51 AM

 My guess would be a hand forged factory made blade, and one of the higher end Showato. I really do not see a nihonto of the WW2 era going unsigned, especially with custom order fullers. If the nakago had shown some signs of age, I would have gone for it being a mumei Shin-Shinto


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#7 NihontoCollector

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:42 AM

It is a WWII Gendaito. Could be by Nagamaitsu . I have had several Mumei Nagamitsus and also other Mumei Gendaitos. Looks like someone working in the Bizen tradition. A sword of good quality. A pitty it is not signed.


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#8 Tom Darling

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 02:31 AM

Kissaki is another conundrum, just doesn't look sincere. Maybe if you could shoot on an angle it put me in a favorable mindset. Thank you.

 

Tom D..



#9 Rei Sinn

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 02:46 AM

Hope this helps. The site wont let me reply anymore.. I'll post more kissaki pics tomorrow morning.

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#10 NihontoCollector

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 03:57 AM

Kissaki is another conundrum, just doesn't look sincere. Maybe if you could shoot on an angle it put me in a favorable mindset. Thank you.

 

Tom D..

 

it is not about mind but iron


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#11 vajo

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 06:31 AM

Luis, this is definately not a nagamitsu.
The sword itself looks well made. A nice gendaito. The yasurime gives a mark to the smith.

#12 NihontoCollector

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 06:56 AM

Hello Christoph,

 

yes it is probably not a Nagamitsu while I personally can not comepletely rule it out. I see a great variety in Emura and Nagamitsu blades. Also their mere number is tremendous. This leads me to thinking that a larger number of people made "Nagamistu" blades. That is numberous prisoners employed at the coresponding prison forges - hence the great variety and sometimes a reason not to sign the blade.

 

What is very atypical for a Nagamitsu are the Bohi. Bohi are rather rare with Gendaitos but they exist. I have not see them on a Nagamitsu blade yet. (I actually think I have a Nagamitsu somewhere that is similar)

 

Aisde from pinning this blade down to a certain smith, I have no doubt that it is a WWII Gendaito.


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#13 vajo

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:43 AM

Yes ww2 gendaito. Nagamitsu hada and boshi is very unique. So think we should concentrate on the yasurime. It is very good made.
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#14 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 09:47 AM

Meiji/Taisho era traditionally made blade.


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#15 Rei Sinn

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 05:13 PM

Other side of kissaki.

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#16 vajo

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:45 PM

The yasurime is very unique. Looks like a variant of kesho yasuri. The nakago is kata yamagata. I search today in all books for a smith with that nakago and yasurime and found nothing. Maybe i had to less books  :laughing:

 

I bet there is only a few smiths in Meji/ Showa who do this in this way.

 

A very fine sword.


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#17 Stephen

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:45 PM

war time polish, a art polish would really bring out workmanship


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#18 vajo

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:55 PM

I had a feeling this could be a Hizen smith. Chu suguha with some ko-choji elements and a lot of ashi.

 

I collect wartime gendaito and this is the finest yasurime i ever seen. I think it is older than 1933.


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#19 Rei Sinn

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 08:32 PM

Chris-

I sincerely thank you very much for all the time and input. It's truly a fascinating piece I couldn't leave behind!

The only reference prior to everyone's input was John slough and Kokan Nagayama. Interestingly, nagayama's Connoisseur's book has a matching illustrated example of the yasuri with regards to the corresponding era, but gendaito are a whole different animal.
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#20 Stephen

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 08:44 PM

Worth a polish. History had to get in the way of this being signed. Just too much time put into it to not be signed. We may never know what happened...in polish a team may be able to pin down maker.
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                         Stephen C. USMC DEC 63 APR 73

 

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#21 vajo

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 08:51 PM

I'm with Steven, it would be worth to go for a polish.


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#22 Tom Darling

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 09:48 PM

last picture of boshi was definitive, you "have got" a winner. Nice gendai,  It will be interesting if you get origami? Also, I appreciate getting the stinger.

 

Tom D. 


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#23 Rei Sinn

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 06:59 AM

I might consider looking into an origami. Anybody know of a good polisher in the states?
Rei

#24 Bazza

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 10:45 AM

I might consider looking into an origami. Anybody know of a good polisher in the states?

IMHO, if not Jimmy Hayashi then this blade needs to go to Japan.  IMHO.  It is possibly an utsushi to Koto Bizen - suguba with ko-ashi and a hi that goes into the ko-shinogi.

 

 Most definitely needs a high level polish.  IMHO.

 

BaZZa.


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#25 george trotter

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 03:44 AM

Just thinking out loud.I wonder if it is mumei because it was one of the two leftover swords usually made when a special order blade is commissioned from a swordsmith.

We hear of one blade being chosen and signed and the other two are left to the swordsmith to sell off...unsigned. Maybe this is what this blade is...it does seem to be high class work...maybe one of the leftover swords after an offering to a temple. Guess we'll never know.

regards,


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#26 Rei Sinn

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 04:16 AM

George-

I have read an article about this too! If I were to speculate and the sword was an offering to a temple, could the original koshirae have been a shirasaya replaced with gunto mounts? Sorry, still new to this.

Although, the mounts are tattered and don't exactly reflect the condition of the blade.
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#27 george trotter

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 10:59 AM

Hi Rei,

no not re-mounted from temple shirasaya. I mean that when a smith makes an offering or a commissioned presentation sword he usually makes 3 swords and the "recipient" chooses the one he wants. This one is signed, but (as I understand it) the other two (there is a name for them but I forget it now) are sold off by the smith unsigned. Just thinking out loud, but maybe yours is one of these? It looks like a well made and finished sword that should be signed...just thinking of a reason it is not signed.

Regards,


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#28 NihontoCollector

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 02:36 PM

IMHO, if not Jimmy Hayashi then this blade needs to go to Japan.  IMHO.  It is possibly an utsushi to Koto Bizen - suguba with ko-ashi and a hi that goes into the ko-shinogi.

 

 Most definitely needs a high level polish.  IMHO.

 

BaZZa.

 

As I said earier  it looks o be work in the Bizen Tradition ... so yes I agree to that  ...but send it to Japan for a top level polish? I can't agree to that due to the market situation.


Luis


#29 Navymate

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 08:02 PM

Rei-

Your blade has similarities in the yasurime to some of the Emura blades I have seen, such as this one: https://www.aoijapan...a-emura-saku-3/

Here is a link to a search on sold items from AOI Art for “Emura” in case the link doesn’t work for you: https://www.aoijapan...s=Emura&x=0&y=0

I am no expert, just merely suggesting the similarities since no one has mentioned Emura yet. I hope this helps you with your research. Good luck!

Mark
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#30 vajo

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 09:16 PM

That was what i searched for. Emura yasurime. Thanks for finding it out.

 

emura.jpg


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