Whats the DEMAND for early copper handled type 95 ncos swords??

[lonely panet]

a person i know wants to sell a nice example with a mistached saya in numbers.

personally iv always thougth they abit over hyped, so im not sure of the market values and demand. its neat and numbered 2800,  with a nice fat early tsuba.

 

so whos in the market for 1,  please PM me

[Bruce Pennington]

Mine came with a saya with no number!  Probably a refit or repair.  Prices are higher on them because they are the first version and produced in such limited quantity.  It's like buying the first few years of a Mustang.  

[jeep44]

Mine also came with a mismatched saya, but it was the correct type for a copper handled NCO. I had all the other types of NCO swords, and I knew these early ones were quite rare, made in limited numbers, and had to survive the whole war. I jumped at the only one I'd ever seen for sale, and I'm glad I did. Maybe I paid too much at the time, but what are they selling for now?

[lonely panet]

judging by the complete lack of interest or PMs it has confirmed my feelings that the fade of early copper handled ncos are over hyped or past its due

[Bruce Pennington]

Possibly.  I suspect most collectors on NMB that want one in their collection, already have one.  If I didn't already have one, I would have been the first to PM you!

[John C]

8 hours ago, lonely panet said:

over hyped

I think this is probably true. From my perspective as a novice collector, having one would be really cool. But people want 4 to 5 grand for one because it has a different handle when I could spend that money on a really nice blade.

John C.

[vajo]

Mine has also a mismatched saya. 

Copper handled one are like the holy grail. The first thing when you talk about Type95 is a copper handle because only 3.000+x has been produced. That is what you read first in wikipedia.

 

So rarity makes them mystical. Maybe if you more experienced say that a copper handle is not that much interesting. But for me is my copper handle important and i would not sell it for another sword because the chance to get another one is really low.

 

Between $2.000 and $3.000  + x ist the price for mismatch copper handle in good condition. 

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

1 hour ago, vajo said:

Mine has also a mismatched saya. 

Copper handled one are like the holy grail. The first thing when you talk about Type95 is a copper handle because only 3.000+x has been produced. That is what you read first in wikipedia.

 

So rarity makes them mystical. Maybe if you more experienced say that a copper handle is not that much interesting. But for me is my copper handle important and i would not sell it for another sword because the chance to get another one is really low.

 

Between $2.000 and $3.000  + x ist the price for mismatch copper handle in good condition. 

agree. my copper with matching numbers and period correct tassel isnt going anywhere

[BANGBANGSAN]

Not only copper handle overhyped but the Type 95 is also overhyped. Even though I have a quite few in my collection, still think copper should be 2-3K. Regular brass guard 7-1000, same condition Iron guard 200 less. But that's just me.

 

[robinalexander]

19 hours ago, lonely panet said:

judging by the complete lack of interest or PMs it has confirmed my feelings that the fade of early copper handled ncos are over hyped or past its due

Not sure that is the case Hamish.  Lack of PM's is more likely due to the lack of an advertised sale price.

 

 I whole heartedly agree with every comment made so far (interesting reading tks) however your question is in regard to the demand is for coppers and Bruce has summed it up nicely. i.e. most collectors on NMB that want one in their collection, already have one.  If I didn't already have one, I would have been the first to PM you!

 

It really is a 'supply and demand' issue.  I think just under 6500 ever made (pls correct me if I am wrong and I will edit)

 

Anyone who is interested in coppers already has one and they are not letting them go.  Therefore, very few on the market.  But for a collector who needs one, forget 'barn finds' ... you either inherit/purchase one from family or friend (best deal) or more likely, pay market value for one of the very few that come up.  

 

Chris and Trystan (above) have provided realistic prices. A good guide.

 

Are they worth the big bucks? Probably only to a collector of military swords. Is the Mona Lisa worth US $952 million? ..... obviously was to a collector 

 

A quick google will show what coppers have sold for at auction and don't forget to add costs to that price.  Concentrate more on sold prices not so much on asking prices.  Arrive at a figure and put it in 'for sale' section and you might get a better response.  There is also a heap of info on coppers, including pricing over the years, on NMB.

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

I'm not enthused over people using the discussion section to throw out bait for a sale. Use the For Sale section, any more by anyone will get removed.

[lonely panet]

its been a interesting read,  i just wanted to "gauge the weather" personally i think if anyone pays 5k for a machine made blade needs there head checked.

 

i just wanted to see if theres still interest, considering the currant market conditions. and also wanted to start conversation about percived RAREITY 

 

after all  early type 95 ncos swords sell for more money  then what i sold my early ardmirals flag sword that was published. 

 

and also i was thinking of your brain,  didnt want yet another over priced item that sits on the forum for 6 months taking up space and time

 

 

[vajo]

Hamfish if someone collect flags and heartly want an admiral flag he will pay the price he can spent.

 

It's not about machine made blades. It's all about to have one of the things that are rare. A flag is only some cheap fabric. What makes fabric special? 

 

Someone decide to spent  25.000,- EUR  14.000,- EUR for this tsuba.

[robinalexander]

2 hours ago, lonely panet said:

i think if anyone pays 5k for a machine made blade needs there head checked.

Hamish, your entitled to your opinion and I agree that I wouldn't pay US 5k at the moment either but I also wouldn't knock any collector who can afford it and really wants to secure one.  Yes, they are relatively rare and therefore collectable.

 

Would I pay $952 million US for an oil on board 'Mona Lisa' even if I had the money? No .... but again, someone did, and why not.  As ridiculous as it may seem, that price is not going to go down.

 

The fact is that not many coppers were made compared to other Type 95 Patterns and who knows how many survived China in the 1930's and then WW2.  But like the Mona Lisa or that very special real estate location, if you have something that is quite unique or rare, then it is less affected by market trends and therefore better positioned to hold its value. 

 

I believe coppers fall into that category and for military sword collectors, and there are many, their rarity is more reality than perception.

 

If you price your friends copper correctly, I can assure you it will not stay unsold for 6 months

Rob

 

 

 

[dwmc]

17 hours ago, vajo said:

Mine has also a mismatched saya. 

 

On 2/25/2023 at 4:17 PM, lonely panet said:

a person i know wants to sell a nice example with a mistached saya in numbers.

 

On 2/26/2023 at 8:48 AM, jeep44 said:

Mine also came with a mismatched saya

 

This all seems rather odd, Type 95 copper handles with mis-matched numbers. The two currently for sale on Ebay are also mismatched numbers. Just coincidence ?? 

On 2/26/2023 at 6:27 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

Mine came with a saya with no number!

[Bruce Pennington]

Non-matching numbers are pretty common in all the versions of the 95s, except maybe the wooden handled version. ( @Stegel @Shamsy might know more about that)  Just speculating, but I would think the longer a sword spends in the combat zone, the more likely it will need some repairs/replacement parts.

[reeder]

I recently auctioned one with no # on the saya in decent shape, hammer price was a whopping $1800 or so. 🤦‍♂️

[Bruce Pennington]

Ok, correction to my post.  My saya has no serial number.

[lonely panet]

i think its been a worthwhile post,  the discussion of retail prices,  risky auction methods and unnumbers sayas with early typr 95s.

thanks for all your imput,  this is what the NMB is all about, real input by collectors whom and study there swords, with good observatiosn.  

 

thanks guys

[Kiipu]

One thing that caught my eye in regards to serial number 2800 was that the markings are reversed on the ferrule.  Normally, the arsenal logo is on top while the manufacturer's logo is at the bottom.  However, on a handful of copper hilted Type 95s, the markings are the other way around.  The manufacturer's logo is on top while the arsenal logo is on the bottom.  The reason for this is currently unknown.  See the pictures of serial 2800, courtesy of the OP.

 

Observed Type 95s with Reversed Markings

1476東, 2204東, 2800東, 3068東, 3263東, & 12677東.