Gunome Posted June 27, 2021 Report Posted June 27, 2021 Hello, 20500-2.jpg (1800×7718) (aoijapan.com) Does I al the only the one to see 2 hagire on this blade, not indicated on the description and with a recent NBTHK Hozen (aoiart said the "paper will be issued later") ?!? A modern blade with a hagire and a recent NBKTH paper. Does I missed something ? 1
PNSSHOGUN Posted June 27, 2021 Report Posted June 27, 2021 Wow, yes two clear Hagire. Some questions to be answered. 1
Brian Posted June 27, 2021 Report Posted June 27, 2021 Visible both sides...hmmm. That does require some answers. Who's going to ask?
NewB Posted June 27, 2021 Report Posted June 27, 2021 So NBTHK would not issue Anything to blades with hagire? John
ChrisW Posted June 27, 2021 Report Posted June 27, 2021 They only do for things that are significantly old, unique, the only known examplar, etc. Why they did for this particular blade is a big question to answer.
NewB Posted June 27, 2021 Report Posted June 27, 2021 I appreciate that Chris. It was what I thought that they judge the authenticity of the blade/signature and not judge its flaws. John
Ray Singer Posted June 27, 2021 Report Posted June 27, 2021 Sometimes a blade will receive kanteisho in old polish and restoration will expose a previously unseen hagire. A friend has an excellent blade which was expected to be a juyo candidate after restoration. After a mukansa-level polish, a hagire was visible in this previously papered blade. It is a Shinto blade, not so old that the NBTHK would have made an allowance for the flaw. The shinsa team simply missed seeing this issue. 6
ChrisW Posted June 27, 2021 Report Posted June 27, 2021 Funny how Ray stated something so obviously simple that we all seemed to have forgotten is a likely possibility! Thanks Ray! 1
Jwrussell Posted June 27, 2021 Report Posted June 27, 2021 3 hours ago, ChrisW said: Funny how Ray stated something so obviously simple that we all seemed to have forgotten is a likely possibility! Thanks Ray! Sorry, this deserved to be repeated. 😄
DoTanuki yokai Posted June 28, 2021 Report Posted June 28, 2021 I don’t think the Blade got polished recently. 1
Gunome Posted June 28, 2021 Author Report Posted June 28, 2021 Hello, I know that a blade could be papered and polished after make a hagire visible. However, I don't thinks it is the case here. Indeed, the hozon is under papering, so issued recently and we know that polisher has long delay. Moreover, I don't thinks the blade has been polished recently because there is some scratches and something that looks like oxydation/rust just above the ha machi. Quite strange the blade passed the Hozon, and quite strange that Aoiart doesn't spoke about these hagire in his descriptions. 2
DoTanuki yokai Posted June 28, 2021 Report Posted June 28, 2021 As always the easiest would be to send an email and ask the seller. 1
Stephen Posted June 28, 2021 Report Posted June 28, 2021 Sent screen shot to Tsurata san asking. Not convinced ther cracks. 1
Brian Posted June 28, 2021 Report Posted June 28, 2021 Stephen, They are exactly the same size and shape, both sides of the sword...in the same position. I can't see how that is possible unless they are hagire.
Stephen Posted June 28, 2021 Report Posted June 28, 2021 49 minutes ago, Brian said: Stephen, They are exactly the same size and shape, both sides of the sword...in the same position. I can't see how that is possible unless they are hagire. Yep im well aware what hagire are. Im sure you remember mine.... these marks could well be cut marks from cutting 2" bamboo. NMB anymore is to quick to think the worst on many things. Tiresome it is but don't see it changing. Now lets see how many down votes i get Aoi responds ill post it. Dont hold your breath. 1 1
Brian Posted June 28, 2021 Report Posted June 28, 2021 Nah, I think we'd all love to be proven wrong here. Can't see why optimism would get down votes. My suspicions were based on the curve of the one...thought it unlikely 2 scratches would curve the same. But let's see. I hope we all wrong. Then again, I'll have a %%#$ if the answer comes back that they aren't strictly speaking hagire because they just barely don't go through the whole hamon. Hmm... Let's see.
Jwrussell Posted June 28, 2021 Report Posted June 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Brian said: Stephen, They are exactly the same size and shape, both sides of the sword...in the same position. I can't see how that is possible unless they are hagire. Not to be contrary, but the lower mark doesn't look the same to me on both sides. VERY similar, but not quite matching...
Infinite_Wisdumb Posted June 28, 2021 Report Posted June 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Stephen said: Yep im well aware what hagire are. Im sure you remember mine.... these marks could well be cut marks from cutting 2" bamboo. NMB anymore is to quick to think the worst on many things. Tiresome it is but don't see it changing. Now lets see how many down votes i get Aoi responds ill post it. Dont hold your breath. Agree that we have a lot of armchair experts here - its interesting to watch the banter. 1
Ray Singer Posted June 28, 2021 Report Posted June 28, 2021 This is the actual blade I mentioned above, which was discussed more as an example of how a sword with Hozon can have a hagire. Aoi had this previously papered blade polished and the hagire was visible afterwards. My friend bought this sword from Aoi understanding the issue, but wanting an otherwise healthy example of this smith's work. http://www.sword-auction.jp/en/content/as15927脇差：相模守藤原政常（刃切れあり）-wakizashi-sagami-kami-fujiwara-masatsune-hagire
PietroParis Posted June 28, 2021 Report Posted June 28, 2021 It always bears repeating that I know nothing about blades, but I notice that in Ray’s example the mark does not look exactly the same on the two sides either.
Ray Singer Posted June 29, 2021 Report Posted June 29, 2021 This is the reply from Aoi. I checked the sword very carefully but it is not Hagire at all. Regards. Kazushige Tsuruta 1
Stephen Posted June 29, 2021 Report Posted June 29, 2021 Hummmm Dear Mr. Stephen Thank you very much for mailing and advice As a result of examining the information from you earlier, I was surprised to find two lines of Hagire. Immediately I instructed the staff to withdraw the sword. At the Japanese Sword Museum, hagire examines carefully at the examination stage and informs us of the existence of hagire, but it is surprising that this Emura passed the NBTHK Hozon Token. In the future, we will check it carefully before selling it. After being pointed out, I was able to find it as a result of careful examination with the lens. We would like to express our sincere gratitude for your opinions. Aoi Art Kazunari Tsuruta 4
Ray Singer Posted June 29, 2021 Report Posted June 29, 2021 That's interesting. I just received the reply from Aoi 30 minutes ago. Regardless, thank you for sharing the update & clarification Stephen. Best regards, Ray Edit: I see that we received a reply from two different people. I do not know Kazunari Tsuruta. 1
Brian Posted June 29, 2021 Report Posted June 29, 2021 Well, there you go. Thanks to eagle eyes and their excellent photography. Sometimes pics see stuff that the eyes miss. I guess we can call this one done and dusted. Any further comments before I close it?
Stephen Posted June 29, 2021 Report Posted June 29, 2021 Sooo its a office worker Ray? Ive always just used Tsuruta in correspondence and never paid attention to the other name.
Ray Singer Posted June 29, 2021 Report Posted June 29, 2021 I would guess that Kazunari is a relative, but really have no idea who that is or their role at the shop. Brian, nothing further from my side if you want to close the post. 1
Infinite_Wisdumb Posted June 29, 2021 Report Posted June 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, Stephen said: For the record its still in auction and the auction has been updated to state that hagire are present 1
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