WWII bring back - ID help

[alamo]

My Dad brought this Japanese sword back from WWII.  I was curious to know any information about it.  He got it on Okinawa, from pile of captured swords.   

 

There's no markings, numbers or letters of any kind on the blade although I have not disassembled it. Maybe there's something under the tsuka.  The only markings I see are on the tsuba. There's one indistinguishable number or letter, over a 7 and a 1. 

 

I keep it oiled and the blade seems to have picked up a few pieces of debris from the wooden scabbard. 

 

Let me know if any additional photos are needed. Thanks for any info anyone can provide.

 

Edit: In looking at other postings here, it looks like I need to take the tsuka off to see any markings on the blade. I'm not sure how to do that, can anyone tell me how?

 

Thanks 

 

Tom Darr

[Bruce Pennington]

Alamo,

Forum rules (plus we all like talking real people!) - go to your settings and put in a first name, or sign a name at the end of each post, thanks!

 

Type 98 Japanese officer's sword in combat saya (scabbard). The combat saya often means there is an older blade in there. No way to know until you take out that bamboo peg holding the tsuka on the blade. Once that is pushed out, the handle and tsuba/seppa will all come off. Then you can get some good pics of the nakago (tang), blade pointed up.

 

The fittings are nice, so there might be something cool under that tsuka!

[alamo]

Thanks for the info. I'll do that and see what's underneath.   Sorry for the breach of etiquette.  

 

Thanks

 

Tom Darr

[alamo]

Well, I tried tapping it out but it taps in but doesn't come out. The tapping just seemed to crush the peg and it's not coming out the other end. I suppose that bamboo peg was rotten possibly.  Any suggestions?

[PNSSHOGUN]

Later war example judging from the snakeskin wrap under the Ito and combat cover. Nice condition, need more pictures of the sword to identify it.

[vajo]

Your mounting does not fit. Try to look on Ohmuras site to find out the correct assambling.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Tom, Here is a link to a care and etiquette page; you should read it carefully.

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

If the peg is rotten it needs to be replaced so don't worry about damaging it; get it out.  The care & etiquette should help you get the handle off.  If it is too stuck to move, 1st check for a 2nd peg further down the handle and then try placing a small block of soft wood next to the habaki (collar) and butting against the seppa (washer).  Gently tap on the block with a hammer till the handle pops loose.  Get us clear pictures of each side of the nakago (tang).  Care & etiquette will help you replace the handle and insert a new pin.

Grey

[raynor]

The peg should be thinner on one side versus the other, as in one side of the peg will not fit into the hole if you try but the other side should so you push on the smaller end of the peg and it should come out.

If this is not the case and the peg is already damaged you can try with some more force, like a blunt nail or screw with light hammering on the small end of the peg. Remember if the peg is faulty to get something similar as a temporary solution, very important the sword is not left with just friction from the tsuka holding it in.

[alamo]

Your mounting does not fit. Try to look on Ohmuras site to find out the correct assambling.

 

Would this be the page? 

 

http://ohmura-study.net/905.html

[alamo]

The peg should be thinner on one side versus the other, as in one side of the peg will not fit into the hole if you try but the other side should so you push on the smaller end of the peg and it should come out.

If this is not the case and the peg is already damaged you can try with some more force, like a blunt nail or screw with light hammering on the small end of the peg. Remember if the peg is faulty to get something similar as a temporary solution, very important the sword is not left with just friction from the tsuka holding it in.

 

Yes, I was tapping on the thinner side. I'll try it tomorrow. I guess I'll need a replacement for it now. 

[alamo]

Hi Tom, Here is a link to a care and etiquette page; you should read it carefully.

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

If the peg is rotten it needs to be replaced so don't worry about damaging it; get it out.  The care & etiquette should help you get the handle off.  If it is too stuck to move, 1st check for a 2nd peg further down the handle and then try placing a small block of soft wood next to the habaki (collar) and butting against the seppa (washer).  Gently tap on the block with a hammer till the handle pops loose.  Get us clear pictures of each side of the nakago (tang).  Care & etiquette will help you replace the handle and insert a new pin.

Grey

will do, thank you

[vajo]

Yes this is the site.

[BANGBANGSAN]

The Seppa/spacer looks replacement/

[PNSSHOGUN]

Seems that the leather retention strap seppa has disintegrated at some point and swapped with others.

[Dave R]

The Seppa/spacer looks replacement/

 

 Not the first time I have seen reused and mixed fittings on a legit' Gunto. There was a war on, and in the field you would use what was available, cannibalising other swords when necessary. So many damaged swords in the China campaign that the IJA sent out a repair team, who ended up having their tour extended because there were so many to deal with..... These do look to have been reassembled in the wrong order though.

[alamo]

Seems that the leather retention strap seppa has disintegrated at some point and swapped with others.

 

Yes, it's gone completely unfortunately 

[Bruce Pennington]

Tom,

Sometimes it’s necessary to grab the peg with pliers and pull it out. I have one that is that way. The wrap may be blocking its exit on the other side, or the holes in the tsuka and nakago aren’t aligned perfectly and the peg sits at an angle.

[vajo]

Maybe it helps...

 

[alamo]

Tom,

Sometimes it’s necessary to grab the peg with pliers and pull it out. I have one that is that way. The wrap may be blocking its exit on the other side, or the holes in the tsuka and nakago aren’t aligned perfectly and the peg sits at an angle.

 

I'll give it a shot tonight and see what happens, one way or anther, it's coming out 

[alamo]

Maybe it helps...

 

peg_remove.jpg

 

Thanks, that's what I did. I'm afraid it's just mashed in there now. I'll pull on the other end with needle nose pliers. If that doesn't work, I guess I'll just have to follow raynor's suggestion

[vajo]

You need this one.

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/BladesUSA-Jl-600-Cleaning-Bottle-Papers/dp/B003U7W4PE/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=sword+care+kit&qid=1557763741&s=gateway&sr=8-1

[Brian]

Don't worry too much if you destroy it. As long as you don't harm the tang, tsuka or any other parts. You'll make a new one from a bamboo chopstick anyways, which will work fine.

[alamo]

You need this one.

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/BladesUSA-Jl-600-Cleaning-Bottle-Papers/dp/B003U7W4PE/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=sword+care+kit&qid=1557763741&s=gateway&sr=8-1

 

Wow, pretty inexpensive too

[Stephen]

Do not use kits with red balls. Uchiko is very coarse!

[alamo]

Do not use kits with red balls. Uchiko is very coarse!

 

 

Good to know, thanks

[b.hennick]

I buy Bob Benson's uchiko - huge - $45  - lasts for a very very long time. Excellent quality.

[Stephen]

Agree its 45$ he also has a kit for same price.

[alamo]

Well, here's an interesting dilemma.  I tried to get the peg out again but no luck.  I didn't want to strike too hard on it. I finally got a small flat head screwdriver and just dug the pieces out. There's just bare metal at the bottom of each hole.  It's not lined up with a hole in the blade.

 

The peg was apparently 2 pieces or maybe it was one piece at one time and it shifted and broke it in two. Not sure where to proceed from here. I don't want to damage it. See the pictures.  You can see the metal at the bottom of each hole.

 

All the seppa parts are loose. Maybe this explains it. 

[Tanto54]

Dear Tom,

 

It looks like the mekugi (bamboo peg) had been sheared off on each side and there is probably a small bit still in the nakago ana (tang hole) that has the tsuka (handle) jammed in place.  You should work very slowly and carefully.  It also appears that the tsuka has slipped within the wrap (based on the look of where the binding meets the kashira.  I think that you should start by gently moving the sword back into the tsuka (instead of out of it) so that you can realign the holes in the tsuka with the hole in the nakago (tang). Once they are realigned, you can push out the small piece of remaining bamboo peg.  In other words, I think the tang hole is above the hole in the handle if you hold the sword with the tip point up.  It may be counterintuitive to force the sword deeper into the handle when you are trying to get it off, but I think that's what you need to do in this case.  You can move the sword deeper into the tsuka by holding the tsuka in one hand with the tip of the sword point up (vertical).  Tap the bottom of the tsuka (kashira or pommel) with the palm of your other hand.  Inertia will cause the heavy sword to slowly move deeper into the tsuka (handle).  Start lightly but you may have to tap it pretty hard.  Keep checking to see if the holes are realigning.  If they do, then get the remaining mekugi (bamboo pin) out.  If not, then you'll have to try the block of wood tapping against the tsuba method (mentioned above) to remove the handle (but if it does have a small amount of mekugi remaining, it may jam and tear up the tsuka).

[Bruce Pennington]

Quite peculiar! Two options:

1. Grab the tsuba on both sides with both hands and rock the tsuba . I have dislodged stuck tsukas that way.

2. The barrel screw at the top unscrews. If it is through a hole in the nakago, removing it will free the tsuka. You will have to bend the sarute enough to get it off first. To have a hole that high is unusual for this type blade, common in Type 3, or contengency, blades. I would try it though.