Bencld Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 My norinaga katana and yasumitsu wakizashi arrived from Aoi art Japan. I will try and get some better pictures this weekend and post them as I have a few questions. 3 Quote
Ray Singer Posted May 4, 2017 Report Posted May 4, 2017 Congratulations, look forward to seeing photos. Shikkake Norinaga? Best regards, Ray Quote
Bencld Posted May 4, 2017 Author Report Posted May 4, 2017 Thanks all. It's exciting when you get a new toy and your wife supports your passion. Ray, no, I wish. Aoi believe it to be the kaga norinaga but when I get some better pictures, I am hoping someone will have some mei oshigata that we may be able to identify which one it is. It may even be gimei hence my question about gimei swords but it has some nice work in it and a nice shape and I really like it. The advice from the gimei post was to like the sword and not the mei Chris D 2 Quote
Vermithrax16 Posted May 5, 2017 Report Posted May 5, 2017 Nice! Would love to see more pictures, very pretty. Quote
Ken-Hawaii Posted May 5, 2017 Report Posted May 5, 2017 Looking forward to seeing more photos, Chris. Nice buy. Ken Quote
almeister Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 Hi Ben Based on your post - I'm guessing that the katana wasn't certified ? Was the wakizashi certified ? If so - the katana you are questioning gimei - how was it advertised ? Many of AOI'S blades are certified If it was consignment - the owner may not wish to pay certification fees for shinsa however If one of AOI'S blades - did it have ( no guarantee ) under smiths name ? If so - there are 2 ways of looking at it in my opinion 1 - Aoi believe the blade to be gimei 2- The blade has been to shinsa & failed You also have the option of discussing with them - sending the blade to shinsa at an agreed cost - however this may not be possible if consignment ? I have purchased off Aoi before - but only certified I don't know where you live - but the time to get the blade certified was while it was still in Japan - if you're somewhere where the NPO visits - then that can be an option down the track I may be " off course here " ? However I'm guessing the katana isn't certified - in which case I only would have purchased the blade under the assumption of a probability of gimei Just some food for thought Wishing you All The Best & Good Luck ! Alan.K Quote
Bencld Posted May 6, 2017 Author Report Posted May 6, 2017 Alan. Thank you for your input. Living in Australia. Both aoi listings had "not guaranteed" in the listing info so I bought the blades with the probablity of being gimei. Tsuruta san believed the norinaga to be the kaga one 1469, his opinion. I did have the norinaga sent to shinsa while it was in Japan and it failed so I don't know what they are looking for there and what that means. There was no explaination or indication of who made the blade, just fail. Now I have them in hand and I am very happy with them. Some very nice work in them that I can enjoy regardless of who/when made them and maybe someone here may be able to narrow it down a little when I get some better pictures. My overall experience with aoi was very good and I would recommend them. I have been an electronic gold prospector for years and I will just have to get out on the goldfields and find some gold to pay for a better sword next time ! Chris. 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 Chris, good luck with the gold finds. In the meantime enjoy your blades for study puposes. If gimei, it is likely that the person who cut the signature reckoned the blade was close enough to the work of a certain smith, ie that it had enough goodness in it even without a signature. This is probably what you are seeing. With a limited budget and a cool head I think you are doing the right thing, but everyone will step in and have something to say. You are doing a good job of holding your line and maintaining objectivity, IMHO. Gambare! Quote
almeister Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 Thanks for the honest answer Chris ! I to am in Australia ☺???????? I think we'll both be waiting a while before we see another shinsa here ???? So with a fake signature - the only thing one can attempt to do is kantei it to a smith - good luck with that ???? If you're not already aware - if shinsa fails the blade to the signed smith - but believe it is made by the same school as the smith - sometimes they offer the option of mei removal which can be done by experienced Polishers - from there the blade can be re submitted & an "Attribution Only " to the school can be certified to the blade - however this is generally only going to be considered for a " Big Name " smith As you said " It's about you being happy with what you got ! " ???? All The Best ! Alan.K Quote
Vermithrax16 Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 Newbie here but only shinsa and papered swords exist? Asking for a friend. Quote
Bencld Posted May 6, 2017 Author Report Posted May 6, 2017 All. Please find enclosed nakago photo. The nakago butt sort of looks kaga/ kashu. Quote
almeister Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 Hi Chris You will need to take more pics Include both sides of nakago - including areas under habaki for the experts to give you more ( I am certainly no expert ) The pic of nakago you posted appears to have orange tinge above top mekugi ana which could mean active corrosion starting - it also appears scaly around that area with a hairline running linearly along the ridge into the top mekugi ana - however this may just be the pic you posted - some pics give false impressions ! I hope there was no mention of saiha/heat effected I would suggest include keeping the nakago & under the habaki oiled (not just the blade ) as well - as we have high humidity in some areas of Australia - especially where I'm from - up north Singer sewing machine oil is good ! All the Best Chris ! Cheers , AlanK Quote
Gakusee Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 On our common path to learning, just a few tips from me. There is a very in-depth treatise by Tanobe San on gimei swords and what gives them away and how to recognise gimei. I keep referring to it and it was referenced partially in another thread. If you can get hold of the Japanese PDF (with the pics) and the English translation,that is fairy dust. Onto this sword - yes the jiri might be finished in Kaga fashion. But look at the overall balance (or lack thereof) of the nakago. Would the Mei be placed so low? Would the shinogi line be wobbly and obtuse in places or would it be straight, confident and consistent? There are various other signs as looking at the Mei makura (raised edges), the surface around the Mei etc. Quote
Bencld Posted May 7, 2017 Author Report Posted May 7, 2017 Some more photos. Alan. I use singer oil and there is no active rust or flaking on the nakago. It is stable. I am in central Victoria, humidity not an issue, snow sometimes !! No mention or obvious indicators os saiha. This is the aoi blurb on the blade. Quote
Bazza Posted May 7, 2017 Report Posted May 7, 2017 Does anyone else see a ghost of an old (removed) signature from the mekugiana down past -NAGA???? BaZZa. 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted May 8, 2017 Report Posted May 8, 2017 Bazza, yes, there look to have been a series of characters there. Quote
Bencld Posted May 9, 2017 Author Report Posted May 9, 2017 Bazza and Piers, what would/could be the reasoning behind removing the mei ? Is it possible that the mei has worn out due to rust or usage over the years ? If the mei was removed, why put another one there ? Chris D Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted May 9, 2017 Report Posted May 9, 2017 Chris, do you have the link to the original Japanese listing at Aoi Art. The write-up looks good in English. I wonder if there are any hints in the original? Quote
Bencld Posted May 9, 2017 Author Report Posted May 9, 2017 Piers, apologies but no. I did not see a reason to save the original Japanese listing. Maybe I could email aoi and request the original Japanese listing ? Chris D. Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted May 9, 2017 Report Posted May 9, 2017 No worries, Chris. Just curious. Mr Tsuruta seems to be trying to be as honest as possible in his descriptions. Quote
tokashikibob Posted May 9, 2017 Report Posted May 9, 2017 Chris, Nice pieces, Curious if kaigunto mounts are high end? Btw, Can you post a pic or two of field ops of Aussie gold hunts in Izakaya? Best regards, Bob Quote
Bencld Posted June 3, 2017 Author Report Posted June 3, 2017 A few more najago pictures and hada pictures of the norinaga 1 Quote
Adversary Posted June 3, 2017 Report Posted June 3, 2017 Can someone explain what this means? I've seen it on their site many times: Aoi Art estimation papers - Whole oshigata There is a blade i'm very interested in on that site, and if some money falls into my lap, i'll be after it. Quote
Brian Posted June 3, 2017 Report Posted June 3, 2017 It comes with their own opinion of what it is (their own kantei basically...not official or binding) and an oshigata that they have done. Quote
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