Jump to content

Mino Goto Tsuba (And Introduction)

xander zane

By xander zane
in Tosogu

 Share

Recommended Posts

xander zane Apprentice

xander zane

Posted
Posted

Hi all,

I am new to the forum and to Nihonto and Tosugu collecting. My name is Alex and i am from the Uk, and i have been interested in the Samurai way of life, especially there weaponry, since i was a small child. It was sort of by accident i stumbled accross Nihonto, i was was searching the dreaded auction site ebay, and stumbled accross a tsuba that caught my eye which i eventually won. Unfortunatly i did not have the time before the auction ended to do any research like i usually would, but it was cheap enough for me to take a gamble. Which brings me here in the hope one of you may be able to identify it and hopefully tell me it is not a fake (fingers crossed). 

 

Even if it is fake it was a small price to pay to have found out there is actually a community dedicated to the collection and preservation of Japanese swords, as it has been my life long ambition to own a true piece of Samurai History. But before that happens i will have to do a hell of a lot of research and saving lol.

 

Thank you for reading, i will add some pictures of the Tsuba below and tt was advertised as a late 18th early 19th century shakudo mino goto tsuba. From what i can gather Mino Goto is a school that specialises in floral designs? But from other examples i can find on the web the one i have bought looks a bit simpler in design compared to there usual works. So maybe a apprentice or lower budget piece?

 

Please correct me if i am wrong this is all so new. If any more information is required i will be able to supply it when i pick it up from the postage depot tommorow 

 

Thanks, Alex. 

 

post-3397-0-07246000-1442170144_thumb.jpg

post-3397-0-49509200-1442170154_thumb.jpg

post-3397-0-01263800-1442170163_thumb.jpg

post-3397-0-74086600-1442170169_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
xander zane Apprentice

xander zane

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Dammit hit post when I hadn't finished, I also meant to say for some reason I was drawn to the tsuba, I like it's simple design, and how they haven't gone over the top with the gold. Is there a name for lower quality pieces, and to what purpose where they made I.e. Lower ranks, the public?

 

And do many people collect such works? As my budget for collecting would be fairly low to start with due to all my money going towards postgraduate tuition fees.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
xander zane Apprentice

xander zane

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Its 2 1/4x 2 1/8 inches according to the guy i got it off, so would that mean its for a tanto? And its quite possible it isnt mino goto, as i am just relying on what the guy put in the description. Is there another style you would attribute it to?

 

I plan on doing a write up on all the details i can gather on it so i can use it for future referance, also helps me gain knowledge quicker. 

 

I plan on doing it for any more tsubas i purchuse, although i am going to do some reading up on the subject first. 

 

And thank you for the welcome, its not often you get such a nice one on a forum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SteveM Grand Master

SteveM

Posted
Posted

Is there a name for lower quality pieces, and to what purpose where they made I.e. Lower ranks, the public?

Hello Xander, 

 

There are some uncomplimentary names for lower-quality pieces  ;-)

It seems rather small, so, as Fuuten says, maybe it is for a tanto. With the two hitsu ana on either side, it seems it might also be for a miniature sword, the kind that was posted on here recently.

 

Actually, I was looking at pictures of other tanto tsuba and I came across one that looks similar in style to yours. Same paulownia crest on the rim. Paulownia was the family emblem of Toyotomi Hideyoshi, and it exists today as the seal of the government of Japan. (It's a common motif on sword furniture.)

http://s-touken.com/?pid=77497105

Link to comment
Share on other sites
xander zane Apprentice

xander zane

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks steve very informative and that tsuba is very similar in design, and indeed a good piece to learn from, as now i know quality is everything when it comes to Tsubas, and it will certainly mean in future i will do greater research before making a purchase. 

 

Now to find some good quality literiture to read up on the subject.

 

I am on my now to pick it up and will post back later hopefully no further damage has occured in transit lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Fuuten Mentor

Fuuten

Posted
Posted

Its 2 1/4x 2 1/8 inches according to the guy i got it off, so would that mean its for a tanto? And its quite possible it isnt mino goto, as i am just relying on what the guy put in the description. Is there another style you would attribute it to?

 

I have 1 tsuba, (apart from 2 koshirae), which is wakizashi sized @ 69,2x66,3 by 4,2mm thick (also I'm terrible when it comes to inches and right now i don't have much time).

 

To be honest i'm not sure on where the size restrictions (and maybe design), for tsuba classify one to be tanto, wakizashi, katana or tachi sized. However mine is clearly too small for a katana, let alone tachi, and too big for a tanto, so only one is left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rkg Mentor

rkg

Posted
Posted

Xander,

 

"off the shelf" pieces were known a shiiremono.  Though this term has negative connotations due to the mass quantities of low quality work that was churned out in the late edo/Meiji/later periods for the tourist trade, they weren't necessarily bad work (think Akasaka - a lot which were made later basically as gifts to be given by people returning from their stint in Edo) - they were just (mass) produced w/o a specific customer in mind (to be sold in shops, for stock to have on hand, etc).  The really bad stuff/poor taste stuff people tend to call "dock work","hamamono", etc, as they were making it by the docks in Yokohama, etc right where the tourist ships pulled in...

 

There actually is a class of tsuba that were made across history that are interesting but aren't terribly expensive - I don't think the Japanese have a category for them, but but Rich Turner had a great term for them - Cheap and Cheerful tsuba.  Some are pieces that were made in quantity (like the plethora of old, "seasoned" ko-kinko tsuba that you see), some have been cared for but used a LOT, some are categories that are kind of on the outs these days (there are trend/fads in collecting like anything else), some don't exhibit some highly prized trait for the group (monster size, etc), etc. Here' s few examples, all of which didn't cost much (I think they were all $250 or less), but they are generally interesting in hand:

 

First, a heianjo tsuba that's been loved for a looong time - this piece has a dynamic composition, great presence in hand, and you can tell its been used a LOT - the zogan is long gone, its been remounted at least a half dozen times, etc:

 

http://www.rkgphotos.com/recent_stuff/riceball_front%281%29/Images/riceball_front%281%29/Lv2/img01.jpg

 

Next, an akasaka piece - I ended up selling it, but I still kind of regret it:

 

https://www.facebook.com/266005023454853/photos/pb.266005023454853.-2207520000.1442244341./356361204419234/?type=3&theater

 

Next, here's a ko-kinko piece - I think there's also a class of mis-priced tsuba - I took a flier on bad images on an online auction - it probably should have sold for more, but hey...

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.862696487119034.1073741846.266005023454853&type=3

 

and finally, a surprisingly nice Saotome piece - it was funny - after I posted this one I was contacted by a former NMB member who had owned a VERY similar piece for a while - this piece is early, so the concept of "not made to order" pieces has been around for a while:

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.891670057555010.1073741850.266005023454853&type=3

 

The problem is that there's this fine line between exhibiting wabi-sabi/use that is cool and just plain flogged/BTS/low quality pieces - there's a LOT of the latter out there unfortunately, and as with everything, you're probably better off looking at a LOT of pieces in hand before buying anything (I kind of have to agree with Grey on what to do with the piece you posted - its over the "flogged" line, and, well, if you've seen well done nanako...) - Looking is free (or nearly so - probably wise to buy a pint/lunch for any collectors that take pity on you and let you look at a few pieces, but...), perfect for the college student :-)

 

 

Good luck,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

 

 Is there a name for lower quality pieces, and to what purpose where they made I.e. Lower ranks, the public?

And do many people collect such works? As my budget for collecting would be fairly low to start with due to all my money going towards postgraduate tuition fees.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
xander zane Apprentice

xander zane

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for the advice and information Richard, cheap and cheerfull pieces would probably suffice for know. Its finding ones that are of good quality that i actually like the design off thats tricky. I plan on doing some research before making my next purchase, and its my birthday at the start of next month, so might be able to con the family into buying me some literiture to have a read through. 

 

Also would you mind posting a picture of what you would consider good quality nanako so i have something to compare it to.

 

Thanks, Alex. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Veteran

Mark

Posted
Posted

Xander,

 

You mentioned ". I plan on doing some research before making my next purchase, and its my birthday at the start of next month, so might be able to con the family into buying me some literiture to have a read through."

 

You should check out Grey's website http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/  he has a lot of books on tsuba. Grey is known to the members of the NMB and has a great reputation. If someone is looking to get you a gift that is the place to go.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ed Veteran

Ed

Posted
Posted

Stephen,

Anytime my friend, anytime.   Look at swords, drink beer, fish, drink beer, look at tsuba, drink beer, eat fish, drink beer. Puke from drinking beer, pass out on dock, roll off dock into pond, crawl out onto shore, pass out, wake up and do it again.  Of course you will have to have most of that fun yourself, I have a one beer limit.  :laughing:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rkg Mentor

rkg

Posted
Posted

Alex,

 

The best nanako pieces I've seen I've shot for other people, and I'll have to get permission to post - I've currently only got one piece with nanako on it - and its early so its not as good as you see later, but given that its not bad:

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200642158755267&set=a.10200642158675265.1073741825.1199211370&type=1&theater

 

Getting some books/studying is a very good idea (usually a lot cheaper than the usual "buy, figure out you got screwed, sell at a loss" loop that beginners typically do), and I'd second or third or whatever working with Grey on this (he's one of he best sellers I've ever dealt with).  But also you should endeavor to look at as many decent pieces in hand as you can as well.

 

Its funny - I started picking up these Cheep and Cheerful pieces as "buy, shoot, and shift" pieces (just to keep working on improving my technique), and found that some were actually surprisingly good in hand - never really jaw droppers (unless somebody really screwed up - I like those)/what is often recommended you collect, but...

 

Best,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
xander zane Apprentice

xander zane

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Ed those are some good quality pictures there thanks for the link, and richard hopefully some day i will get lucky enough to own some jaw dropping pieces. I will certainly have a browse through Grey's website, its good to know theres somebody who can be trusted when starting a hobby such as this.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites
xander zane Apprentice

xander zane

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you for the welcome, the Tsuba in the first picture almost has a optical illususion effect on my eyes rather bizare actually. I quite like the second tsuba, for some reason i seem to favour floral motifs, probably something i picked up from my parents, and my own work as a gardener for a short period of time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...