george trotter

Sorry for my slow response.. those RJT rules on nugui refer specifically to traditional made blades (RJT gendaito) of WWII manufacture. I gave that rule because the question was basically: did they use nugui in WWII? The answer to the using of nugui on showato is unanswered, but I think first that blade needs to be properly identified as gendaito or showato and then whether nugui has been used on it. Maybe some of our showato collectors can check their blades for nugui use and show some examples to the board. If none show up we have "basic evidence" that showato did not get nugui polish. Good project for someone (Bruce?)...ha ha (sorry). Regards, EDIT: hope this matter is not detracting from the original post about Utsuri...

Jean-Pierre, Yes, they did use nugui in WWII polishing. Article 1, rule 6 of the Rikugun Jumei Tosho rules mentions that the blade must be wiped with nugui. You can read the document in the "Interesting Articles" section at the bottom of the menu page. Go down to WWII RJT document article. Regards,

I too think the tassel on the kai gunto is correct...the navy brown seem to be a bit more 'dark chocolate' colour than the gunzoku type sometimes seen on army gunto, which is usually the same lighter brown seen with the blue or red tassels...please correct me if I am mistaken. Regards,

Paul, I just checked the NIHONTO MEIKAN p.549 and it only lists one Tamenaga for Bitchu and gives the same details as your image from Markus Sesko (Embun, Aoe, Bitchu)...there is no other info. I think the info in Hawley is the same man...just less detail than these 2 others. Regards,

Sorry guys...hate to be a joy kill, but that is not the chuso...it is the chuso 'disconnector' button found on the scabbard mouth on 2 button Rinji mount swords. They all have it like that. PS...what is a MRS 1945?

Propaganda movie/pics...you might be right Dave..could this be another example of us westerners 'inventing' things (Type O, 3, 44 etc)...I think we need proof that they jumped out of planes wearing swords....Nick?

Yes, these guys have done some fine research and deserve our appreciation...so thanks Nick and Bruce. Speaking of the Order of the Rising Sun...my Japanese teacher Tsuyako (Sogawa) Coveney 1936-2019 at Univ. West. Aust. was awarded it in 2017 after 40 odd years teaching (see pic below...yours truly is big guy at LHS...it was taken 1979)...I went to her award ceremony and to her funeral a few months ago. Her father was an IJA officer who was lost when his ship was torpedoed on the way back to Japan from Rabaul. As to whether the term Rinji Seshiki gains wide acceptance, I don;t know...I am not a dictator so won't want to force people to change their ways...I think maybe over time if we put Rinji Seishiki and (Type 3) next to it it will help spread the message. Bruce...about the change in length, tip, tang etc...I noticed it by comparing my 2 Munetoshi blades (98 and Rinji Seishiki) and I have seen it also with his brother Akihisa in each type of fittings. OF COURSE, with swords there are always exceptions so maybe it would be good for somebody (Bruce?) to do some research and see what "trends" show up (members must have lots of examples that can be cross-referenced against each other to see if it is true...or just my imagination!). Anyway, here's the pic..she was a great woman/teacher...she used to tell me traditional folk stories...great...I'll miss her. regards,

Just saw these replies about paratroopers jumping out of planes wearing a sword...well...who'da beleived it...we live and learn...good research guys.

This Showa era smith seems to have always "named' his swords (I have seen pics of a few over the years)...this one seems to be named (middle line) ECHZEN TO MARU (Echizen helmet maru?...Lucky headpiece/protector of Echizen?...I could be wrong). Here is a page (92) from "Dai Nihon Token Shoko Meikan" 1942 that identifies him. regards,

I think now, after the finding and release of all these archive documents it is quite clear that what we have is a WWII IJA sword blade / mount variation called a RINJI SEISHIKI GUNTO (Emergency / contingency Type Military Sword). For discussion...as well as the mounts, I, from observation, also think that the blades in these mounts has shortened by c.1- 2 cm, the kissaki has also shortened, the sori slightly straightened and the tang has sometimes lengthened by 1 cm or so and invariably has 2 ana (of course there are always exceptions). These changes, with the sturdy Ikkan-maki lacquered binding etc, has produced a very good "field use" hand combat sword inspired by those used by foot soldiers in the Sengoku Jidai. While we have no documents declaring these changes to blade shape / length / tang etc., I think they must be part of a "revision" in thinking for battlefield use swords by IJA HQ. The need for these revisions undoubtedly came from battlefield experience in China 1931-1940. I hope one day we might find such evidence in the archives. While we may still use the various incorrect "Type" classifications "O", "3', Late 44", Naval Landing" because they appear so often in books, on-line etc, I think we need to concentrate on using the correct title from now on...maybe just Rinji? or Rinji Seishiki? Edit to Add meas: Munetoshi (Niigata) Type 98 dated 9/41: blade length 66.0 cm, tang length 21.4 cm. Munetoshi RJT Rinji dated 5/43 64.0 21.8 We also need to thank Nick Komiya and Bruce for all their work on this area. Well done (Brian...maybe we should recommend them for the Order of the Rising Sun for services to cultural understanding?). Just for interest (hopefully) ...here in Australia the Rniji mounts were never seen until the advent of on-line buying (at least I never saw one until the late 1980s). Others here may have seen them but I never did. I have a theory on why (call this Trotter's Doctrine #803...I have many): Australian troops fought the Japanese from 1941 (Malaya-Singapore), in this region 1942-1945 (New Guinea, Netherlands East Indies, Borneo, SW Pacific). Our troops were actually opposed to the same troops all this time...relatively speaking, few "new" troops from Japan came down here with new equipment...those who did usually were transferred from fighting areas where they had already been for several years (China, Burma etc.), and with the US entry here in mid-1942, we generally became confined to fighting / holding this area while the US began to "island hop" to Japan. The US troops met with these Rinji swords, but generally, we did not. IMO that is why they were unheard of here until ebay. I stand to be corrected of course. Of the 4 Rinji I have, and say the other 20 I have had in hand...all came from on-line after the 1980s. So, good topc, great work by Nick and Bruce...

Hey Guido, Peace bro!

I was going to let it go, but I will answer.. Yes, we all concur that all are allowed to like what we like. You don't like either one....I like the sashikomi on the left. With all respect, I think that covers it. Regards,

That was my point in my original comment Brian. Collectors now need all sorts of special conditions/equipment/lighting to get a good look at a hamon/hada...presumably one has to fly to Japan to look at a hadori blade in hand before one can make a decision on whether one likes it?...as I said, so sad that we don't see the old easy to see/assess sashi-komi these days. Over and out...

Sorry Guido/Piers (dang...wish you'd get your name right....). Ted, that is a long and very relevant discourse on the quality of polishing and the techniques used and the viewers ability to judge quality, but that is not what my comment was about...I merely said it is a shame that sashi-komi is "gone". To emphasise my point i showed pics of 2 swords by the same man in both polishes and asked members for their opinion on which polish they preferred...only one answered, why? are the members afraid to comment? Here is another observation on the quality of polishes... you only have to look at sword shop sale catalogues 1960-1980 and compare them with "current" catalogues. The old ones showed 1 or 2 clear photos of the hamon/hada etc (usually polished in sashi-komi) and a written description...now catalogues show a dozen or more pics of a (usually) hadori polished blade and nearly always include an oshigata of the blade activities because the pics are not able to do so adequately . I think this alone says a lot about the decline of polishes....why continue to polish blades in hadori which does not show the hamon clearly?...cost/profit! Just my opinion,

Yes Piers, hadori has been around for a long time I agree, but was not often seen until the 'current trend'. In fact, 2 of my WWII RJT blades are in WWII period hadori, a bit less "intrusive" as post-war hadori has become. I think the reason for the "current trend" for it being almost the only type of polish one now sees in sword shops/on-line sales. I think this has been brought about by Japanese sword shops/polishers cutting time/costs and western collectors now thinking it is "the norm". All I was saying is that I regret the "loss" of sashi-komi in today's sword world. We are all free to like/buy whatever polish we want...I want sashi-komi over hadori and as I said, if I can't have it I prefer to leave my WWII swords dirty/scratched than have them re-polished in modern hadori...just saying. Regards,.

Judging from the number of likes you got (and I didn't get even one), I'd say that you are genuinely reflecting the current trend. I accept that. I was just expressing my preference for sashi-komi...so much so that I would prefer to keep a sword in its WWII period sashi-komi (even if it is dirty/scratched) than have it re-polished in hadori. I don't want to start an argument, but I think it is done today mainly because it is easier/quicker/cheaper for the polishing shop, not because it is more appropriate as a polish. I know some here - whom I greatly respect - are OK with hadori...it's just that I am not OK with it. Just for fun, here are two swords by the same man...both photographed from side-on...which polish do members prefer? Regards

The tsuba book TOSO KINKO JITEN by Wakayama p.584 shows info (no pics) for four makers who signed Choshu ju Tomotsugu (some with additional kanji as well). 1st ... family name Kawaji, died 16 Aug 1711 aged 44 years. 2nd ... family name Okamoto, died 29 April 1754. 3rd ... family name Nakai, just says 'late Edo'. 4th ... family name Kaneko, again 'late Edo' So you have a tsuba that ranges in makers dates from 1700-1850...I don't have pics in the book so can't check your signature style...you will have to do some research...members here probably have very good koshirae libraries, so may be able to help. Regards,

Sorry to be a grump...but so sad that sashi-komi polish is gone...

Ha ha - very funny Marius....I deserve that for using bad grammar. To the newbies, what I meant is, if he's not in the "bibles" he is unknown to the sword world, not that he doesn't exist. I think many of us have a sword (a real sword we can hold in our hands) and still find that the smith is unlisted in any published source. Never give up searching though...it's part of the study of swords. Regards,

The only Yoshiharu as you give it in Hawley is Mino 1945 YOS 64 (brown 1981 ed.). Again, the only smith of that name given in NIHONTO MEIKAN is on p.1157 and it is Showa era smith of Yamagata...name seems to be Fujizawa Yoshiharu Sorry..if he's not in the 'bibles'...then...? Regards,

200 years old!!??!! ...he's already an esteemed GENRO, what would 200 hundred years of service make him FURUI GENRO? Yes we sometimes get 'lazy' questions and also queries on swords that later turn up for sale...but in most cases there is still a learning/teaching component to it...I think we're still bumbling along nicely (just my opinion mind you, I am getting a bit old and dribbly myself, so may be missing the point). Regards,

Dang! I have collected Japanese swords for 50 years and have only ever had them with plain brown tassel or brown/blue. I never had one with a brown/red tassel.(seen them) let alone one with a general's tassel. The collecting gods must hate me...sniff!

2015!!!...didn't even notice the date...and now he's gone...well I sure look foolish. Nothing offensive intended though...just a gentle hint to all you millionaires to help NMB and Brian where you can. I'd like to donate more to his trip but now that the Aussie dollar is so devalued a $100 dollar contribution from here wouldn't even buy you a run & coke in America. Ah well, I'll try to notice little things like being 5 years out of date next time... Regards,

Wow,,,well done! That's a lot of money, Maybe you haven't heard yet, but there is a guy named Brian who needs a few donations to help him get to the DTI in Japan this year...so,...maybe...?