george trotter

BTW, I thought I should give you the address in English as given here by Thomas. (If I am wrong please correct me (Morita san?). It is Gifu ken Mugi gun Seki cho ko 130

Thanks for that Steve...The pic is the only address I have, which does not seem like a complete address to me (maybe Seki was much smaller then and that address would be easy to find then?)...but a lot harder today. Anyway, I will have another google search today Steve using your added details and see what I can find. Regards,

Thank you for the list of lengths Chris...it seems Type 98 are a bit longer, but hard to tell as it is all different smiths. I hope there are a couple of members who have Type 98 and Type Rinji by the same smith...then we might see if there is a trend for smiths to "go shorter" when in Rinji mounts (or maybe it is when it has a star stamp?). Maybe this query is a waste of time and is actually going nowhere? Regards,

Yes, maybe Bruce means you Chris. You provided good info on your personal collection of Rinji blade lengths (all seem close to the 66.6 cm "rule"), but I thought maybe if we can get some blades by the same makers in both Type 98 and Rinji mounts we can see if a shorter blade "rule" was demanded. What you said earlier about maybe the blades under government control had to fit the government scabbard length but private order, even in Rinji mounts, could be whatever the customer wanted...just don't know how the system worked. Regards,

Yes Chris, very wierd. WE were walking around that old village and stopped at a shop for an ice-cream and that column of heads was just around the corner, on a walkway. We did ask local people what they meant, or who put them there, but they all said they did not know what/why they were there. Very scary.

Let's hope so Bruce. Maybe there are relatively few Rinji in collections?...we don't seem to be getting much info. I know I have 11 swords as follows: 5 Type 98 - 5 Rinji - 1 civilian mounted with a leather cover...which is about 50% Rinji...I don't think this is normal...I just happen to have stumbled across them over the years...I am a "blade first - fittings second" kind of guy, so have just "happened" to end up with this many. Lets hope we hear something...but maybe it is a "nothing-burger" query? maybe there is no real following of any "Rinji Rule"...you know what the Japanese are like. Regards,

Just on the OP...I know I began this post as a query on the different blade lengths of Seki-made Rinji compared to private-made Rinji, but since we didn't get any responses concerning other Seki-made Rinji blade lengths, I thought I'd ask another question: (this is for your fact list Bruce) here is a pic of my two Munetoshi blades I referred to elsewhere as being different length blades according to their period/mounts...i.e. blades got shorter with the Rinji mounts (I know the picture in the OP shows a Rinji with a 69.5 cm blade, but maybe some feedback on Munetoshi might help us understand better) Details are (top) Type 98 - Yamagami Munetoshi 16/9 - o/n 308 - length 66.0 cm - med/long kissaki (private order). (bottom) RS - Yamagami Munetoshi 18/5 - o/n matsu 1080 - length 64.0 cm - short kissaki (RJT). The Rinji drawing above shows that the blade length should be 66.6 cm, but this one is 64.0 cm. (in fact the Type 98 is 66.0 cm)...so maybe if members send in some dimensions we can see if the Rinji rule was obeyed...or as is usually the case with things Japanese, never say always...

Thanks for all your efforts and comments guys. I think we gave it a try, but no luck. Speaking of admiring scenes in Japan Chris....here are two scenes I remember from a visit to my daughter (teaching for 3 years in Hyogo Prefecture (Harima) in Japan). The first is a "strange" pillar of heads with empty eyes in an Edo period country village there called Izushi . These heads were just stacked in a square column in a street...very strange - no explanation of what/why they are. The second is a small snowman my son built while we visited an old 1400s castle called Takedajo. The castle is now destroyed c. 1600, only the stone base remains. My son thought he would leave a little snowman there...he is called "Takeda-Joe" (get it?).

Thanks Chris...I also looked there on-line and cannot see anything like it...maybe bombed out at thet end of the war, or maybe "re0developed' by now. Thanks guys,

Wow, thanks guys. I am impressed with the responses. I will try to find that address Thomas...maybe Morita san can find it more easily? I will let you know if I find something...be great if it still stands. Regards,

Hi all, just wondering if this building in Seki City is still standing? and where exactly is it? This is the Seki Token Kabushiki Kaisha building (Seki Sword Company) in 1941. I ask because this is where the great (2Mil) RJT smith Nakata Kanehide worked from Feb. 1941, and where he made my 1944 star stamped Rinji Seshiki Gunto mounted sword. I know it is a long shot, but just interested to know if anyone knows if it still stands, and what it looks like today....and exactly where it is. Pic (with address) is from 1942 book on Japanese swords/smiths/dealers etc."Dai Nihon Token Shoko Meikan" p.16. Be interested to hear from members....

Yes, google often bam the boozle!

Yes, I think it looks good....well spotted! Nice shape overall. Blade about 62-64 cm? nice hamon. Can't say if shin-shinto or gendaito, but I'd definitely take a chance on it too Brian. Just a a light clean with alcohol and some oil and I think you will smile. When you find the two missing O-seppa and maybe that it is a Kokuho, I think you will be grinning for a month! Good luck.

No Bruce. Trystan and my translation is correct. As they say...google can be naughty...

First time I've seen a gold (plated silver) mon.

Thanks for those pics Nicholas...nice to see a female kenma shi and also nice to see a couple of sashikomi polishes. Regards,

Can't read the first two? kanji, but the last 5 look like .... ju Minamoto Yoshi haru Saku. Hope this helps, Regards, edit to add: It is signed TOTO JU MINAMOTO YOSHIHARU SAKU. His family name is NIIHO Motoharu (might be Motohira?) and was born in Niigata prefecture. Made gendaito and worked in Tokyo (hence the name TOTO - Tokyo). Also worked after the war. Saw a pic of his sig, on worthpoint...same man.

Yes Bruce, you are right...I also have that drawing of "govt. mandated" RS mounts (pub. 1944) and the length given is 66.6 (maybe a maximum?) and it is what prompted me to ask about blade lengths as mine is only 62.5 cm. I also posted that pic above of my RJT Kanehide because it was in identical mounts (originally announced by Tojo in 1941) with 2 buttons. Also...what you say about Tojo saying the RS should be made of tamahagane makes sense as, if you look at any RJT blade in govt. mandated steel scabbard mounts, all RJT I have seen in these mounts have two buttons....but showato do not. My OP was a question about the blade lengths in govt. mandated steel scabbard RS mounts. Except for my RJT Kanehide blade above, we have not had any feedback details on these. I thought lots of NMB members had them?

Well spotted Dave, I have looked at Ohmura sensei's site many times and that just did not register. So, I think you might have answered the question Dave...considering that the specs for a rinji mounted sword was 2 holes in a slightly longer tang, a short tang would not be considered good...maybe that's the answer? Will be interested to see if any NMB member has an old blade in rinji mounts. Thanks,

Thanks Chris, that is interesting stuff. NOW...not sure if this should be a new Rinji post...but I just thought of an additional question regarding Rinji mounts/blades...has anyone seen an old pre-Meiji blade in rinji mounts? I know I haven't. Regards,

Interesting Bruce, I also do not have a showato Rinji sword so can't comment. My Rinji sets are all gendaito...maybe it would help if I set out the lengths: Remember, that first one by Masakazu is private order Rinji mounts and blade, so I suppose you could order any length you liked? So here the 5 are with dates/lengths - 2 private made blades...3 RJT blades: 4/17 private order rinji mounts, blade, by Masakazu, Fukushima ken = 69.5 cm blade (he became a RJT about this time). 1/19 private order rinji mounts, blade by Seisui, Tokyo (made Shinano ken) = 62.1 cm blade (unknown smith - one-off?) 5/18 private order rinji mounts, blade by Munetoshi Niigata ken RJT star 64.0 cm 5/19 govt mandated steel mounts , blade by Kanehide, Seki/Gifu ken RJT star = 62.5 cm. I should say that from 1941 Kanehide worked for the Seki Sword Co and was an RJT there. Obviously this company received govt. produced "stock standard" rinji mounting parts I have seen several Kanehide star blades in govt. steel mounts (but with 2 buttons). 8/19 private order rinji mounts, blade by Kunihide, Kyoto RJT star = 66.8 cm Not sure this tells us much...be interesting if members told us date, rinji mounts type and maker/length of their swords...maybe nothing, but they seem to be shorter in rinji mounts. Regards, Edit to add...wow Chris...excellent. All within the 62-67 cm range. This seems to fit my list here except for the Masakazu at 69.5...I wonder how many long ones will turn up? I think my 69.5 blade is just because it was private order...I don't think we will see a RJT blade that long? Great stuff.

HI all, Just for fun I thought I'd ask about blade lengths in Rinji mounts. Now, I haven't really been taking notes on this, but GENERALLY speaking, I think I notice that the "government mandated" type rinji made in Seki/Nagoya/Gifu with steel scabbard, tends to have a (government regulation?) short blade c. 62 cm while the private order mounts with lacquered wood scabbard and hilt have longer blades c.64-66 cm. To illustrate this, here are two of my Rinji: 1. Privately made/mounted gendaito blade by Tsukamoto Masakazu (older bro. of Okimasa of Tokyo) with a blade length of 69.5 cm. This is the longest blade I have seen in a rinji mount. 2. Seki Sword Co. made Govt. mandated steel mounts with RJT blade of Nakata Kanehide at 62.5cm. Any comments...examples? (BTW, the long sword is much lighter than the short sword). Regards,

Hi all, Being the owner of what I think is a mumei Aizu Mutsu no Kami Kanesada blade I naturally bought the book "Aizu 11th Generation Izumi no Kami Kanesada - part 1". This is a good book and seems to cover his life/work up to his death in 1903. What I would like to know...is there a PART 2? I have looked on line etc but can't find any mention. Does any member have any info on Part 2?...is there one?... or not?...or it is coming? Thanks,

Interesting info Dave. I'm sure Bruce likes a marking challenge haha... Yes, I would get someone competent to re-build the head and then re-shape and re-slot. I say this as the thread is (I think) unique, and best to keep the screw if possible. Again, yes, the top screw is often longer than the rear screw. Have fun and look after it...now 80 years since it was made. Regards,

Hi, There has been some comment on the possibility of this smith Munetoshi making non-traditional swords (showato). I think this definitely did not happen! Your smith was Yamagami Wakakichi (Munetoshi). He was born 27 Dec. 1902. He and his brother Akihisa were both trained under the famous Kasama Shigetsugu in Tokyo and then set up a forge together back in Niigata and made quality swords for army officers. Munetoshi used a different character for 'mune' (the one seen on your sword) after he became an RJT smith for the army. A little mystery for me is that your sword has no RJT star stamp (you say) but he is using his 'new' name character...I have only ever seen it with a star. Bruce Pennington and I have been trying to "unravel' the mystery of the 'matsu' stamp etc used by the Yamagami brothers, but no luck yet...and your later used mune character and no star messes things up more. I have 2 swords by Munetoshi...one is Type 98 mounts with original mune name charcter and one is identical to yours, but with star. Both brothers returned to swordmaking after the war. If you want to check out the details of the two signatures/mountings/stamps etc on both my Munetoshi blades, you can download my little article on the NMB index page (top) called 'Trotter Collection' ...check out swords #3 and #6. You have got a good hand-made WWII sword there...just gently oil the blade...try to gently 'stabilise' the mounting wear, and enjoy forever!. Regards,