george trotter

I take it no=one has ever seen a tool like this little "scraper"?

Wow guys...great feedback...Yes that's it Neil...I looked carefully at mine and I would say the width of bands and number/spacing of flowers/leaves impression marks match yours pretty well exactly...I know it is only two samples but I already get the feeling these were made by a small local manufacturer for a local town/maybe city mounting shop. Of course we need to find some more (Bruce?) but this appears to be a local supplier "quirky feature". So Neil, I have to ask...where is Kanesane from? Is he the Seki guy?...if so, I can say definitely that my sword is not Seki in style, blade or tang. Regards all... (and don't forget about KUME mon (or maybe he was one of those kanji-mei mon guys?).

I have to say that you guys sure have some classy gunto. In 50 years I have not had a Type 34 in hand and some of you have lots of them...maybe Neil's collection explains why...almost none of them in Australia? Well speaking of 50 years...here is something that is trivial / of no importance, but is mildly interesting to us gunto nerds (hope this is OK here) ...here is the only gunto sword mount I have seen with this shape hanger top ('dome' head instead of 'ball' head). No big deal, but are there any more out there? It is on the saya of a gendaito blade by SHIGEKUNI...unknown smith, 2 character signature, no date. Good blade with silver habaki, and mon (now missing).Maybe this hanger is from a particular private mounting shop and if a couple more turn up on signed blades I will get an idea of where my SHIGEKUNI was made/mounted? Regards edit to add another trivial question...the sword was owned by 2/lt. KUME of the 32 Div. 2nd Army in Halmahera DEI. There is only 2 ways to write the name KUME...I can't find mon for these two KUME in my books...does anyone know?...might be 2 of them? ,

This interesting topic just came up as I had just re-discovered a hidden away brass tool / implement (shown here with my mekugi nuki) I was given so many years ago I can't remember from whom or what it is called or what its exact purpose is. As you can see I have not used/handled it...is it Japanese sword related (I think so), maybe a scraper...or? Be interested to know.

Hi Mal. Thanks for your kind words....yes detailed (you should see my notes!) but I did it as we owe it to the sword community to leave as detailed information as possible behind us...as you have done with your very meticulous publications...which I use still. So a big thank you to you. (speaking of your Mino book...you must have noticed my comments/guess on sword #10 in my article...maybe Aizu 11 gen Kanesada (or not) haha). Actually, I mean to comment of the topic here about the two holes in a WWII tang, I have to admit that I have seen this a number of times, but never thought to check for a kizu correction machi okuri job as the reason...so thanks for that observation...also this discussion...never too old to hear fresh ideas. Regards all,

Hi Malcolm, Just read your article on the Seki Nihonto Tanrenjo...very interesting. It makes identifying these blades here much easier. Many thanks. Like those blades shown here, I have come across them myself in the past...do not have any now, but nice to read about them, Regards, George.

Hi Bruce...yes looks more like the flaming jewel...oh well...maybe one day we'll work it out. Regards,

You might have something there Bruce.... does pic 1 look like the logo on this 1942 advert for the Suya Sword Shop in Tokyo? (p.90 Dai Hihon Token Shoko Meikan 1942 ). This shop, which has run since Meiji times, supplies (manufactures?) everything for army and navy swords...fitings etc to swords... mountings (I can't see it specifically mentioned, but maybe polishing also?). Maybe one of our fluent folk can comment. Anyway, maybe this #i pic is this mark, which may mean that those other marks are from similar supply shops? Regards,

I had a look at that page 2 and if that stamp he shows is on the sword he shows above it .....then it is on a tang by Seki Yoshinao, so can't? be Mr Nishi of Osaka. If it is on the tang below it, by Izumo ju Tsukimune saku - don't know if I have traanslated it right - (Izumo is Shimane Pref.)...then this too cannot be Mr Nishi. BUT it is always possible that sword production from nearby prefectures to Osaka would be collected and polished in Osaka...just don't know. I suppose this reinforces the old Japanese sword collecting / studying law...we mustn't make assumptions. Back to square one?

Yes, Nishi. Probably an inspection/production mark. I had a look through the 'Nihon Token Shoko Meikan' of 1942 (edit/addition since first post) and saw a half dozen Nishi-something names but only one person with the name NISHI alone. He was in Osaka and listed as a togishi (polisher)...he's on page 277 . His personal fore-name is Hiroshi. Not saying this is the guy who stamped the 'nishi' mark on the tang, but he does fit the circumstances, a polisher named Nishi, puts his "company" mark on the tang of a sword he has just finished polishing....? Maybe if you tell us the blade maker name / location etc we could get a bit more of a clue? Regards,

Nice sword, nice patriotic phrase...sorry I can't add to the translation...that is definitely Morita san/Moriyama san task. I do have two swords with sayings on them...not death poems though, more 'optimistic' in tone...might be of interest. 1. Gendaito by unknown smith Seisui of Tokyo dated 12th Jan 1944. In Rinji mounts. LH column in sosho script says " Ippo susumrte tsuki, ippo susumite tatsu" (one step forward thrust, one step forward slash). Might be a kata from a sword fighting school. 2. Privately ordered Gendaito by RJT smith Okishiba Yoshisada of Osaka. Slogan is "Jin Chu Ho Koku" (loyalty, patriotism). A fairly common saying...I have seen it on Meiji era tangs/flags etc.

Just deleted...was off topic. Regards,

Thanks for the link Trystan...unfortunately that cover is not the right type I want for my scabbard, so I'll keep looking. I think I have dealt with this seller before...years ago...everything went OK if I remember correctly (i think). Regards,

Bruce, I just was joking...meaning I noticed in skimming through the old 80s books I referred to, I noticed a considerable number of "uncertainties" that existed then have now been explained...the biggest mystery (for me) was the true facts on the Rinji Seishiki, and that was solved by Nick Komiya...but there is always room for update books on things such as mon/ribbons/combat covers/Mantetsu/showato/ NCO swords etc etc and their correct titles, as they would "correct" the continued use of such "outdated" names as Late 44, NLF, etc etc, but you are talking "a big project!...have we NMB grandfathers got enough years left?...in fact, all of the corrections I can think of came through warrelics and NMB didn't they...probably the two most reliable sites in their fields....probably easier to continue to rely on these? Regards,

The first blade looks to me like a greatly shortened old blade. The paint marks on the tang say 57. The name plate on the pommel are in katakana script for foreign words and seem to be a name I - Tsu - Ma (Itsuma) or maybe I'MA (the tsu being an abbreviation sign so that the name is said IMA instead of IiTsuMa...hope that makes sense. Regards,

Wow...at last...another Rinji with a mon. Very nice too (Seki - metal scabbard?)! This is the first seen since that one with an anchor in a circle turned up. Well, confirmation, they are out there! (some more pics of fittings and blade? This'll be good info for that gunto variations book you should be writing Bruce!! ha ha. (Not to hijack this thread), but I was looking through Fuller & Gregory 1980s books (hard cover - on Mil swords etc and wow...how much we have learned since then...so much new / corrected info....just take the Rinji itself...we now know what it is. Regards,

Hi Guys... Thanks Chris....hope you find one for me. Bruce...Both...hilt fittings and binding is unique and saya are high quality even though some (like mine) are plain with combat covers. So...I am talking about these high-quality mountings as a whole which are different to the factory-made Seki metal scabbard types (which hold showato/1 button and RJT gendaito/2 buttons) and the all-lacquered (red/brown and dark brown) high quality 2 button types (probably private shops) usually seen which hold private order gendaito and RJT gendaito from makers from many areas of Japan. This type I show here (2 buttons) is different from both the other Seki type and private lacquered type seen. These have a cloth/canvas-like 'same' on the hilt, good quality binding and fittings and seem to be found (a) with lacquered wooden scabbards with black metal fittings, and (b) in the 'plain' painted (sort of thin lacquer) with no scabbard fittings other than the saya-guchi as shown here. Obviously they were intended to have a combat cover with hanger fitted also but with mine the scabbard cover / hanger is missing. They seem to be seen about equally in each type - and mounts quality is high and blades always seem to be RJT (but I haven't seen many of them). I was just asking for smith/location/date so I can get an idea of the area these fittings makers serviced in WWII. From the few I have seen, the dates seem all to be 1944 and the smiths come from the Osaka/Hyogo/Kyoto area...mine being from Fushimi in Kyoto. I tend to think that the this mountings company was only in Osaka area but serviced surrounding areas. Just thought a list of smiths/dates with (hopefully) their prefecture location on swords in these fitting would "paint a picture" of the area these fittings covered and the type/quality of the blades. All I have seen have this type/colour of hilt binding - they seem to be a third "type" of Rinji Seishiki mount which Ohmura does not? show - wonder if any hilts are lacquered and maybe some members have pics of the lacquered/metal fittings scabbards... (heres' a pic of another like mine (seems to have a scabbard cover and hanger), but some had the lacquered/iron fittings scabbards). Lots of fun...

Hi Dave, sorry, I haven't taken any pics of the other side and the sword is packed away right now...I will get a pic in due course. And Chris, yes...still looking for that canvas cover and hamger.

Hi all, I have a late WWII RJT blade in one of those high-quality Rinji mounts which are relatively unknown. Mine is plain scabbard, not fancy lacquered but plainer, probably had a leather combat cover/hanger which is now lost. This type seems to be as much as the properly lacquered scabbard with metal hanger/kojiri type is seen (which is not that often). Mine is by Takashima Kunihide of Fushimi in Kyoto.and is dated 8/1944. Of the few of this type I have seen, all are on blades from the Kyoto-Osaka-Kobe area, so was wondering if this was the "area type'...if so, these are better quality than other private order Rinji IMHO. Just thought I'd ask any member who has one what the details are of smith location date Hope I haven't asked this before... Regards,

Just get back to members...I emailed a week ago to a Seki contact about the building...so far no response. I will let you know if I hear anything...or not. Thanks all for your assistance here. Regards,

Yes, that is nice, I like it. Must be a Navy smith...maybe that's why he doesn't get a mention in the WWII army listings. Here is page 771 from Toko Taikan (maybe you've already seen it)...but it has a bit of info. Have fun,

Maybe a few more photos? Looks good...nice 'handwriting'. Military mounts? Regards

Just thinking out loud...since this is a "samurai" mounted sword (is it signed/dated?) with a name and address without any military ID markings, could it be one of the thousands of civilian owned swords the allies forced to be handed in to local police stations starting in 1946...and became one of those picked out by an allied occupation soldier from the pile at the local police station...I.e. not a "surrendered" war sword? Probably the Kato family still talk about how the family sword was stolen by the allies.

Very nice Brian! You did a nice job of cleaning....Seems like you removed every bit of "gunk" on it....was it just an alcohol rub-down with paper/cloth, then a drying off with paper/cloth, then a couple of uchikos and wipe-offs with paper/cloth? Turned out very nice. Regards,

Brian, looks like you have found an Amachi gendaito. There were 3 brothers?: eldest? Masatsune middle? Kanenaga youngest? or son? Yoshimasa. All made Seki showato and these are seen with nakirishi mei signatures, but I seem to remember reading that all were trained gendaitosho and also made gendaito, or put it this way...I definitely remember seeing each smith's swords with nakirishimei by Seki gunto cutter but ALSO self cut high quality mei...like yours. I had one by in the 1980s (when Steven was a boy) by Kanenaga so did some research (not much). Here is a page of that research with the 3 mei. At least it is a start...I think you will find heaps of info/pics/mei etc with on-line search etc. Oh, edit to add...two of the Amachi swords I had in hand had identical mounts to yours...probably had an "in house" mounter.