george trotter

Hi Peter, A (not very good) photo of a sword with different hamon like yours is to be found in "Japanese Swords and Fittings in the Western Australian Museum" (item 77, p.109). The sword is late shinshinto or gendaito and is signed tachimei: Bizen Kuni Osafune ju nin Kunimune saku. The blade nagasa is 68.7. Masame/itame hada. The hamon is Ura: suguba wirh nijuba and some notare. Omote: choji with tobiyaki. Koshirae is gunto type 98 with a nice iron civilian tsuba with crane and pine needles. A surrender tag is attached "Army Lt. Ichise Kokichi". The sword has no bo-hi like yours but seems to be of the same period. I was unable to find a record of this Kunimune c.1900. It is interesting that such curious swords do still turn up occasionally. Regards, George Trotter

Hi Ric, As stated above, the signature on your sword is Seki Fukuda Sukemitsu meaning Fukuda (family name) Sukemitsu (art name). He started as a Seki Tosho (swordsmith in Seki town) on 12th Sept 1941. The Seki stamp means that the sword was a product of the official Seki Swordsmith Association and had passed their quality inspection for delivery to the military. The stamp therefore means that the sword is not traditionally made...however, records show that these type of military swords generally performed well in battle and it may be said that in tests, many outperformed the traditionally made swords of the previous centuries. Regards, George Trotter

Hmmm...I don't think so Guido...I respect collector's interests and all Japanese swords, whether I collect that particular area or not...I don't think I have sneered at anyone's area of interest or proclaimed that any who do not share my area of interest should be banned from this site. What I did say was that this opinion of "sneering guy" should be filed under "R" for "rubbish" by all of us who don't accept his sneering stance. I add that "sneering guy" did not sneer at me personally...he sneered at all who were interested in an area of swords that did not interest him...unacceptable arrogance...hope this helps. Regards, George Trotter.

Hi Richard, I never see you around these days...where do you hide...? George Trotter

Hi Joe, I have owned both Emura and Nagamitsu. I have also seen a number of Nagamitsu and Emura's in other hands. My Emura was signed simply "Emura Saku" in sosho script and Nagamitsu was signed "Bizen Nagamitsu". In my opinion, based on what I observed, I would say Nagamitsu is a superior maker. His swords gave me a feeling of their strength, sharpness and reliability. Emura (mine) was a beautiful choji midare with ko-ashi...but did not give the feeling of reliability and strength. I don't know if this helps, but it is my opinion. If i had an opportunity to buy ether now, I would buy the Nagamitsu...of course, the blade quality itself must be what causes your final decision. Regards, George Trotter.

Hi all, How reassuring it is to see the positive response from Brian and Brian (Canada), Guido, Carlo and Ted on my message about "sneering guy" (strangely, or should I say predictably, nothing from "sneering guy" himself). It is obvious that this site is not "elitist" and the opinion of one does not reflect the opinions of so many. I will certainly try to read the site more often and help where I can. Although poor Jeremy's query has been sidetracted by all this, I hope he got some info from us all...anything further I find for Jeremy I'll post , that's a promise. Thanks also for the PS messages sent, I will respond. I suppose I should just say that I consider all swords made 1868-1945 as gunto, for that, with a few "artistic" and religious offerings as exceptions, was their true purpose...arming the soldiers of the Imperial Army, a purpose they seem to have served very well. I see no shame in that. My interest lies with the section we term Gendaito but I also have unstamped examples by Seki Tosho which exhibit handcrafting features, so it is difficult to know which site I should be on...to give maximum assistance and to gain maximum enjoyment...I'll just visit both sites. I will continue to enjoy, research and share my knowledge on swords of this period and also those from earlier times with like minded people. As for "sneering guy", please, by all means keep on collecting your swords, studying them and sharing your knowledge with us...as for your "ubermensch" opinions, well, we who find them unacceptable will just file them where they belong, under "R", for "rubbish". Regards, George Trotter

Hi, I just happened to see your post...lucky really as I've sort of stopped reading this site after a member sneered at all who are interested in modern military swords and said we shouldn't be permitted on this site...perhaps as this one may also have made non-military-use swords it is permissable to respond. Anyway, most of my reference books are packed away, (re-building) so I can only give you the following brief notes: You don't give the kanji for this Teruiye, so I may be wrong, but there was a Teruiye studying at the Nihon To Tanren Denshujo in Akasaka, Tokyo between July 5, 1933 and 1943 under Kasama Shigetsugu...his students included Teruiye, Teruhide, Teruyoshi, Terukatsu, Yoshiteru, Terumitsu. I am interested in this group as I have a sword by another of his pupils Munetoshi of Niigata (but I shouldn't mention him as he made swords for the army as Rikugun Jumei Tosho). You can find these brief notes in Tokyo Kindai Tosho 1867-1945 by Chris Bowen on geocities site by Dr Richard Stein. Good luck, George Trotter

Wow Brian...a great lineup of sword books. Luckily I can read enough of the titles to know they are all sword books and I see a set of Fujishiro there too! You seem to have lucked on to one of the most important shops. I found the bookshop guys very helpful and they will mark the half dozen or so shops that deal strongly in swordbooks on the locality map so they are easy to find. I have bought books at 1sseido myself so I will look a bit further to the left also. I am mainly looking for Gendaito related books myself and although I have most of the classics, at least one book, whose title I don't know is still out there...so I will happily search away (I only know it from a photocopied page). Thank you all guys, If I find a great bookshop like this one Brian I will get his card and post it when I get back. Thanks again, George Trotter.

Thank you all, great info and maps. I will be able to check out the Togo Shrine fleamarket as it happens...and will also go out to Itabashi and see Mr Iemura (son of author of Token Yoran) at Token Bijutsu Kogeisha. I visited this shop in 1980 and because I spoke (terrible) Japanese and had an interest in swords this son spoke to his father and took me upstairs to view his father's collection...fantastic, even a Kiyomaro tanto...I think it is still the same son/family business. Those were the days. I also had an enjoyable chat with Fujishiro junior (son of THE Fujishiro) at their polishing shop at Kudan Hill, Yasukuni Jinja, and had tea at the Imperial Hotel with Albert Yamanaka...I'll take my son there and have tea in his memory as well. This should be lots of fun and nostalgia...and then there are all the out of print sword books in the furuhonyas (old books shops) at Kanda:-) Regards and Merry Christmas to all. George Trotter.

Thanks John and Ted, Info and addresses are much appreciated. I will have a few days to snoop around anyway, but now I have two places to head for on Sunday. Thanks. George Trotter

Thanks Brian, I will certainly go to Yasukuni when I'm there and will try Aoi and Token Shibata etc. I didn't know Yasukuni had a market, good to know. I was there 2 years ago...what a change from 30 years ago...much more nationalistic now. I will see if I can find the site of the Yasukuni sword forge too, just for fun...my neighbour here showed me his Japanese sword yesterday...you guessed it, Yasukuni Tosho Yasunori...navy mounts, mint polish...drool!!! Thanks again, George.

Hi All, I tried to post this just now but it "disappeared"...so here goes again. I am going up to Japan for a few weeks Dec 23 - Jan 13 and will have some spare time in Tokyo and Kyoto. Does anyone know of any swordshops, antique shops or military antique shops I might visit that have WWII items ? I am looking for a few gunto bits such as tassels, sarute etc. Any addresses or recommendations would be appreciated. I speak enough Japanese to communicate so am comfortable to go to "out of the way" shops etc. Regards, George Trotter Western Australia

Hi Mark, Yes I do see what you mean...the colour of metal and the prominent hada do not tally with the Gendai Okishiba's I have seen...I am not too good on tanto kantei...Soshu style?. The nakago is a bit deceptive isn't it...hmmm...I can see why you have had difficulty placing it in kantei. Interesting sword. I'll keep an eye out for further reports from you. Regards

Mark, I found a further reference to Okishiba Minamoto Masakuni in Gendai Toko Meikan, Ono 1971 p.130, which shows his oshigata for reference (maybe one of the learned could put it up for you). It shows the tang shape, sujikai/kesho filemarks and gives a clear "Minamoto" for comparison. I think that rather than an atomei as you surmise, the mei actually is contemporary with the age of the tang. Regards, George. PS it will be interesting to see what the shinsa tells you. By the way, as I can't see the blade (not very good on tantos anyway), you might find it helpful to know that the two ONO books say this Masakuni worked in Yamashiro, Sagami and Yamato styles.

Hi mark...oops, I hit submit before i finished the message...as I was saying, I hope I am not leading you way off track, I am only going on the tang details. regards, George Trotter.

Hi Mark, Although I can only go on the Pic of your Masakuni tanto nakago, I feel that your inclination to go back to shinto or koto times does not seem to be supported by the tang details. I feel that the indications are for Gendaito. The tang shape, and sujikai filemarks with Kesho indicate much later than you suggested. This tang shape and filemarks and kesho remind me of the Osaka Okishiba group who worked from a long line of Yamashiro Heianjo smiths into modern times. I have seen swords by their Masatsugu, and Yoshisada, both of whom have these characteristics and also signed Minamoto. Their later smith working into recent times (WWII and later) was Masakuni Hawley MAS416. I checked your mei against his in TK 555 but it is different in that the Masakuni in TK is a cursive style, not "square" like yours, but Minamoto is virtually identical. This is only my opinion and I am no expert, but maybe you could look at the Okishiba Masakuni references above and in Ono 1977 p.100 and check the similarities and differences...I do think the tang says look in more recent times...there are other Masakuni possibilities 1840-1945. Hope this doesn't

Dear All, thank you all for your kind words, and please call me George. I checked out the Bookshop and here is her name and email. Nicole.Ryan@museum.wa.gov.au I know that they will send multiple books in a single package, and I think you can purchase by credit card. It would be worth getting together and nominating a single recipient to receive them and re-posting singly to the group (cheaper?) A lot of work for someone - but if one of you is a sword book dealer, this is a good opportunity to get some cheap stock. I'm pleased the group respects War period gendai and pleased also that I'm not the oldest member!! Now that I'm retired, I hope to be on-line more often. I'm looking forward to chats. Just on the "old days", I really liked Albert Yamanaka. He looked just like a Japanese version of of the old actor Edward G Robinson who always played a gangster. Albert wore a overcoat and a porkpie hat and smoked a fat cigar. I've never heard anyone swear so much! And his opinion of some of the "great men" of swords....well, your hair would catch fire if I told you. regards, George.

Hi carlo, I think it would be too expensive with postage cost to send to me for signing....best to just get an unsigned copy I think. Your English is fine. Better than my italian - Io non parlato Italiano. Regards, George.

Thanks for the welcome Curran...I will be happy to share my knowledge. I should just mention that I made a mistake with the price of the Japanese Sword book of the Western Australian museum price!!! I am almost 60 after all! A couple of members contacted me off-line and said the bookshop did not have the book at the price I stated Aus$11.00. They are correct....I re-read a message I got from the bookshop a few months ago about clearing out remainders, and the price of $11.00 was only to me, as author. Sorry to all, I didn't read it properly at the time. Soooo, I'm afraid it is Aus$21.00 to you all....but 21.00 is only about 15.00 US. Buy, buy, buy.

Hi Brian, Yes I am the author of the Japanese Sword etc in Western Australian Museum. I have just retired from the museum and I turn 60 on Monday. Great to have some time to myself. The reason I wrote the Book of the Collection was that they never went on public display and I wanted the public to see them, so, having some knowledge of swords I did it. It is probably as close as anyone will ever get to seeing them. By the way, the reprint of the book (2nd printing 2001) is now available as a remainder - (I think they have a few left) from the bookshop of the Western Australian Museum for about Aust$11.00 which is only about US$8.00 so if anyone wants one, just google the WA Museum bookshop and order one (or 10) Dirt Cheap! Although I have been interested in swords for almost 40 years, I sold my collection when I joined the Museum in 1982 (conflict of interest), but i had some beauties: Ishido Mitsuhira, 3Gen Echizen Yasutsugu, Endo Mitsuoki, Gendai Bizen Nagamitsu, Emura, 2nd Gen Shimada Mikawa no Kami Sadasuke, Kanabo Haito no Jo Masazane of Yamato, 1 gen Sagami Tsunahiro, etc etc. I regularly corresponded with Willis Hawley and met and had tea in the Imperial Palace Hotel in Tokyo with Albert Yamanaka. I also worked closely with Richard Fuller on his Showa Sword books - I am one of the "old guys". Strangely, I now am only really interested in good WWII era gendai, as I consider them the last of the fighting swords, made for battle and despite what the purists say, and the Japanese themselves, they are at least as good as the Sengoku jidai swords and most of them are better. i just like them because they were made by men my father fought, and most of the tosho were still alive in my lifetime. i wish the sword collecting fraternity would give them the special respect due to them. although I don't have interest in sho and seki stamped gunto, I don't think the "stigma" of showato or gunto should apply to good handmade gendaito. but that's just my opinion. I love them. regards, keep up the good work George.

Thanks Thierry, I get it now. Sorry to be such a "thickie". I'm not familiar with shorthand. Many thanks. george Trotter.

No, sorry, I don't understand your answer. What do you mean? George.

Hi all, Please don't think ill of me, but no matter how I search his site, I can't see a way to send information to Rich Stein's JSI site. How does one send an article on swords for him to add to his site? I'd even send it snail mail if I had an address. Thanks, George Trotter.

Hi. Your long sword is signed KISHO (certain victory) followed by KATO JUMYO. This looks like a showa period gunto or modern WWII made sword for military use. He was active in Seki Province in WWII. If it happens to be an earlier smith of the same name, then you may have found a very good sword. regards, George Trotter Australia.

Thanks for posting the pic of SHIGEKUNI Brian. From the even rust, some people may be tempted to think the sword is older than SHOWA Jidai, but please be assured, it is definitely not earlier. I should also say that my earlier description of the tang as KENGYO should really be called IRIYAMA GATA. I have been doing some study of the later NANKI SHIGEKUNI smiths, Shinshinto era, and this sword's tang, yasuri and mei characteristics match quite accurately. The blade does match some aspects of later NANKI line hada, boshi and hamon but in shape is typical of SHOWA era Gendai swords made for reliable hand to hand fighting. Thank you all for your interst and help...now I wait for the incredibly knowledgeable DR. T (who is he?)... Regards, Geo.