ROKUJURO

Jean, I read that also with a smile, but on the other hand, he is an American TANUKI, so you never know....

Gabriel, the blade length is certainly related to the physical dimensions of the people who used them. A KATANA, worn in the traditional way in the OBI, has a useful maximal length when drawn, if the SAMURAI had an average height of, let's say, 165 cm, and a respective arm length. Of course, there are always exceptions, but we talk about statisics. The other side is the physical dynamics. The shorter a blade, the faster it can be moved. A longer blader is slower, but has wider reach. A TACHI, wielded from horseback, will have other requirements than a sword of an ASHIGARU. Fighting techniques and the develoment of armour will certainly play another role. So there will always be a consensus from practice in blade length if all factors are to be considered, and this comes obviously down to an average of around 65 cm.

Vern, this I cannot tell from the photo, but in any case it would not affect the value of the TSUBA. The age is not related to the value - a newly handmade, high-class TSUBA is very desirable und will increase it's value. A mass produced copy remains always a copy (not speaking about UTSUSHI). Concerning your feeling of not being sufficiently knowledgeable: This will probably not change a lot even after 50 books! Welcome to the club!

Vern, what can be judged from a photo, the TSUBA is likely a recently made copy, a decoration piece.

Brian, have I been upgraded?

Stefan, if it were me, I would contact Paul Martin. Wish you a successful and enjoyable voyage!

Darcy, I would like to add some information to your overview: Citric acid is a weak fruit acid which nevertheless attacks steel. It cannot be 'extremely concentrated', because it is a crystalline powder, when you buy it as 100% acid. It is soluble in water at a max. of 75% at 20°C. A varnish of tung oil or linseed oil has no solvents. Also URUSHI does not need solvents. The change of the molecular structure during curing is called polymerization. The same goes for polyurethane, but here solvents may be added to lower the viscosity or as accelerators of the chemical reaction.

I cannot comment on the coins but the TSUBA look like originals to me. They have very likely been treated with a steel brush, so all patina is gone and all edges became bright and shiny. The SOTEN TSUBA may not be a genuine one but a Japanese fake as there are many of them. The rounded square TSUBA on the right might not look too bad when restored, I believe.

Lance, thank you! I think I understand now, what could have been meant. After refining the steel, that last fold has also to be done at welding temperature so maybe I missed his idea a little.

Pardon, Thierry, I am a bit slow today and don't get what you want to express. I was only citing Haynes, and I wanted to explain that folding cannot be done after forging.

Ken, you are perfectly right. I did not want to express that forging knowledge is essential for aesthetic studies or evaluation of an arts object. But as special technical knowledge is available now (and where I have concentrated on) I did not want to leave it unsaid. It is my personal approach to a better understanding of TSUBA, that is all. As more knowledge is on the table, I think that it should be allowed to say that some older information is not at today's level, even if the respective authors absolutely have their merits in their fields of interest. Interesting enough, there is a parallel in ceramics to what you say. When Bernard Leach, a famous British potter, asked his Japanese teacher, KANJIRO KAWAII, about the chemical composition of ceramic glazes, the latter did not understand the question. He replied: 'If you do it the same way I have done it all my life, you will get the same results.' But we in the West are obviously different, and asking questions can lead to insights that can replace older ones. There is still another point I want to shed light on. In Japan, arts and crafts were never far away from each other, so I think we should not separate these ways too much by saying: I am only interested in the artistic facts of a TSUBA and I dont care how it was made. That would, at least in my understanding, not do justice to the subject.

Ian, as promised, I had a look into my books. Seems that you are right, as tempered cast iron can indeed be forged to a certain extent. To obtain this property, the treatment of cast iron has to be as follows: raw (white) cast iron is exposed to intensive heat at 1.000°C for 60 to 120 hours in an oxidising atmosphere, depending on the thickness of the workpiece. It is thus possible to produce a partial or superficial decarburization, which can result in an increased resilience of the surface of the workpiece. However, as we can see, many TSUBA display clear features of forging techniques like TEKKOTSU, laminations from folding and forge-welding, and other hints like TSUCHI-ME. Relying on the information I have that casting iron (not soft metals!) was a relatively late technique in Japan, I am convinced that iron/steel TSUBA were generally forged with the exception of late copies for decoration or for sale to tourists.

Photos, Peter? Where are the stamps on the TSUBA, how deep are they?

Ken, thank you for your comment. You are certainly right in that an author has to focus on his readers' spectrum. He can probably not cover all forging details if it was a treatise on steel art. I understand that, but then as an author you have some responsibility and should be very careful in choosing the details you use in your text. In my eyes there is no justification for obvious misconceptions and faults, completely independent of the subject of a book or text. You may well call me a perfectionist, but there is so much mediocre information in the media that at the end no one is correctly informed. Japanese arts and crafts on the other hand are so much 'deeper' in concept and execution than we Westerners are used to, that it does not meet the requirements of this subject to go over details in a sloppy way. Just my personal view, and this applies as well to mistakes I find in my own texts......

Ken, there is no standard thickness I have heard of. As far as I know, TSUBA (MIMI) can vary between ca. 2 mm (or even a little less in KO-TOSHO) and more than 10 mm in some AKASAKA. Concerning the function: we are actually disussing this subject in the TOSOGU section.

Pete, thank you, this is helpful! WIKI explains nicely what a lever is. Arnold, I will not continue the discussion. I am obviously not able to make my points clear enough, which may be due to my clumsy English. By the way, I never mentioned the TSUBA's possible function as hand protection. Ken, thank you for the Haynes scan. This is a very good example for my observation, that statements from books are sometimes just repeated without questioning their respective plausibility. Haynes wrote that MARU GITAE forging will produce MOKUME grain. That is not correct. A grain pattern will only occur by removing surface material so that the layers are cut at an angle. This is usually done by filing. Then Haynes writes: ....the plate can be folded, a single time after the forging process.....This is not correct either as the folding and welding is a part of the forging process. The last paragraph contains a description of the welding process where he wants to use straw and ash as a flux. This may mislead inexperienced readers as he probably meant to write 'clay and straw ash' as is actually used. So even a knowledgeable author can cause confusion and misunderstanding when his explanations are based on something he only heard or read, but did not experience himself.

.....the notion that the added weight has to be at the end of the tsuka as a necessary condition for the function of the tsuba, is clearly not so. If the primary function of the tsuba is to protect the hand by stopping or deflecting the opponent's sword I believe we would see rather different shapes predominate, such as cup shapes or even some features that would entangle the opponent's sword. I believe that we would also see similar diameter sized tsuba for both the daito and wakizashi, were protection the main feature, with the weight of the wakizashi tsuba being less, perhaps through thickness, so that the proportional weight distribution would remain roughly the same. Arnold, first, I was referring to you using the term 'counterbalance', which by itself implies a different position on a weapon than on the end of the handle where the blade is. As I wrote, a counterbalance by it's function means something like a heavy pommel we see in European swords and which facilitates rapid movements in fencing, a completely different fighting technique compared with those in medieval Japan. Secondly, I doubted that a TSUBA's main function is intended to be the weight shifting for fine-tuning a KATANA to it's user. There are so many weight-related parameters in a KATANA that have considerable influence on balance (length of blade and TSUKA, material distribution in the blade, SORI, shape of KISSAKI, a.s.o.) that the TSUBA and it's weight is probably a very small factor. I have read and heard a lot about TSUBA, but sometimes I have the impression that statements are just repeated without questioning their respective plausibility. l am keen to learn more, but based on facts, not on hearsay, and I allow myself to ask questions and to do my own practical research in the forge. So, this is not personal but only related to the subject, and has nothing to do with being right or wrong.

Thank you, John! I can understand simple physics. So a TSUBA is meant to work similarly to a sliding weight on the barrel of a precision rifle? I would not have thought this to be it's main function! Concerning the main TSUBA theme in this thread, you wrote:..... Certain tsuba are harder because I believe they are quenched and have a little higher carbon content whilst others.......are not and left purposefully softer to facilitate inlay and carving... This could well be and would explain the forming of martensite on the surface. Subsequent annealing would then reduce the brittleness. Do you have a link or information source for this assumption?

Arnold, if I understand correctly, 'counter' means the opposite end of the handle while the blade represents the major part of the weight of a KATANA. We have counterbalances in medieval European swords where a massive pommel at the end of the handle serves this purpose. In Japanese swords the weight of the TSUBA adds to the weight of the blade while a KASHIRA has no function as a counterbalance.

Grev, you probably know that a reply to your post may require to write a book! It is difficult to give exhaustive answers, the more as not everything is known. Authors of articles sometimes just give their opinions about a manufacturing method, and in many cases these opinions, once read in an 'important' book, spread around and become accepted information, right or wrong. Let me start with your depicted TSUBA. It may well have TEKKOTSU but this is not visible in the photo. The corrosion is predominant, but the TSUBA itself might be nice (or might have been nice....). In the following I will try to answer some of your points. .....1001 - Triple ‘S’ curve fold. This I assume is where the metal is folded twice. Possibly three foldings, depending on what the author wanted to express. Could be nine layers at the end. 1243 – Kettle makers casting. These were cast from the last drops of molten metal after the kettles were made. How on earth can someone be so specific and if they can how can a layman spot this type? In theory, when you prepare a kettle casting, you may put TSUBA molds in the reach and pour surplus iron in. But this is based on the assumption that TSUBA were cast at all. Late cast copies existed but they were not meant for use in battle but for decoration only. Cast iron is useless for battle without a special decarburizing procedure. 1325 – Exceptionally fine iron plate with a liquid feeling. Means nothing to me. This relates to a polished but not even surface. The process is called YAKITE SHITATE – 焼手仕立 or YAKINAMASHI 焼き鈍し in the literature. It is believed to be created by heating the TSUBA up to almost melting temperature. Technically this is nonsense. It is also believed to produce the TEKKOTSU, but you will not find a satisfying answer how they think this works. 1046 – Factory iron plate 1201 – Factory plate, well forged How can I tell if factory iron plate is used and how well it was produced? You cannot tell unless you see traces of folding which is not necessary with factory iron. It is just plain 'lifeless' iron 1014 - Sand iron. 1210 – Refined sand iron 1190 – Well forged sand iron How can I tell if it is sand iron plate that is used and how well it was produced? If you could polish the material the Japanese way (TOGI) you might see a structure like HADA. This could be a hint for a well forged plate. In most cases it cannot be seen unless you have some traces of laminations. Expressions like 'sand iron' are not correct. There is an iron ore called SATETSU, found on the shores of some rivers which is the base material of the traditional iron/steel making process in the TATARA. The raw steel is called TAMAHAGANE. It is quite inhomogenuous and has to be refined by repeated folding, fire-welding, and hammering. The end product might then be called well forged. Many older TSUBA are believed to have been made from left-over material from sword or armour making. 1055 – Very hard iron plate. The only way I can tell if the metal is hard it to tap it and tell by the ring. No, this does not work. I can make any iron plate ring. Hardness is judged by the way the steel reacts on an impression of a hard pointed tip (usually a diamond tip with a standardized weight on top, used in a machine to test the HRC/Rockwell hardness). Usually, TSUBA have not been hardened, even if made of good steel. 1092 – Rich plate is pure Momoyama period. Can age be determined by the metal used? Difficult. What is 'a rich plate'? Unless you can see the naked surface, you can only guess. In may cases it works the other way round: You have a MOMOYAMA period TSUBA, and you know that they had then a good material supply and worked very carefully 1169 – Iron of Owari quality 1041 – Iron of the Saotome. I’m sure a school may be determined by the metal but how. You can only tell by the metal surface. An even surface without flaws and delaminations (often MIGAKI-BO) is a proof of well processed steel 1017 – Hitsuana, Higo style 1027 – Hitsuana, Jingo school, Higo style 1093 – Hitsuana is pure Shoami Does anyone have images of differing hitsuana schools? Someone will have pictures 1249 – Early casting. I know how derogative NMB members can be when talking castings. I understand that some castings are finally chiselled but others are left as cast. I have a cast tsuba that has a quite porous surface so I hold this in very low esteem. My understanding is that there is no early iron casting in Japan. Chiselling cast iron is perhaps possible, but it will be very coarse Don’t even start me on bones..... Grev, I am working on this subject, and the results of my research are not final at this point of time. In my understanding, many of the descriptions of TEKKOTSU are just guesses and lack practical experience and knowledge. I have found that TEKKOTSU is a feature of inhomogenuous steel (which does not necessarily mean a lack of strength!), being processed in a special way (YAKITE KUSARASHI) after forging. I hope this helps a bit.

Keith, It is not the sword that has the title but the smith. It is like a family name, helping to identify the person. Do not worry too much about what is written on the NAKAGO, there is always a chance it is a fake signature, and you cannot be sure unless some real connoisseur or a SHINSA panel has held the blade in hands. But even if the signature was just a phantasy name, it may be a nice sword when restored.

Paul, this assumption is not correct. It is not the prolonged application of heat (which would lead to form coarse crystals within the metal structure of the steel, causing a decrease of sharpness and strength) but it is higher temperature, as Chris pointed out correctly. As far as we know, creating martensite in form of NIE and NIOI plus all the nice little structures of them (CHIKEI, INAZUMA, SUNAGASHI, a.s.o.) requires a fine balance of the carbon content in the steel (and it's distribution), the heating process and the quenching within a very limited range of temperatures. If one of these criteria is not met perfectly, the outcome may not be as expected. The superior mastership of the smiths of old times, their experience with making and processing the steel and doing the heat treatment, and of course the forming of a blade leads to a relative consistency in the appearence of the blades of one school. Do we know if blades were destroyed when they did not fulfill the rquirements of the related school? I could imagine so, and also I could imagine that a blade with somewhat lesser inherent quality could slip through, especially when these drawbacks were only visible after a number of polishes. It is probably like the paintings of a great master: Many of them are very good, but some may not match the highest level. This is my understanding of the complex materia.

Ian, thank you for the information. Unfortunately I have no access to the book on 'Iron and Steel in Ancient China', but when I wrote that a noticeable migration of carbon in steel progresses at a very slow rate and only at temperatures considerably above 900°C, then this is nothing of my invention but can be re-read in books on metallurgy (e.g. Paul Verhoeven). I don't know how educated Donald B. Wagner is in this field. In case he was an archeologist, I would not trust his conclusions. As soon as I am back at home with my books I will look and give you some more data about this. Your TSUBA was certainly made intentionally this way. Patination of the steel can include the use of aggressive substances, so I can imagine a small extra loss of material on the rim which ended in this design. I have seen similar thin material in KO-TOSHO TSUBA in the SUKASHI.

Ian, this is a matter I have done and am still doing some research work in. An article about TEKKOTSU I wrote was printed in a JSSUS magazine. In short words, you are completely wrong. I will try to explain some basics: You cannot decarburize cast iron just by heating it up. You need high temperatures up to liquefaction to achieve this. This is how the industry used to convert raw cast iron into malleable iron or steel (Puddle steel) until about 1870. Carbon diffusion in steel is slow at temperatures below 1.000°C, and especially slow in cast iron. Water kettles could probably have a signature chiselled on without being 'decarburized'. Cast iron is brittle, but not hard. No cast iron is malleable. Only the handles of kettles are forged. Many SUKASHI TSUBA show chisel work traces on the insides of the SUKASHI and NAKAGO ANA. If you remember Ford's famous UTSUSHI video, you get an idea about how the artists used to work, and there is no great difference between soft metal TSUBA and iron TSUBA. The work progress on steel was/is admittedly somewhat slower. If I remember correctly, many AKASAKA TSUBA even show a SAN MAI welded construction in the plate, and traces of lamination are clearly seen on the rim of many other schools' TSUBA. I have heard that the file was a relatively late invention in the Japanese crafts, but I can offer no date for that. Probably the early artists had stone files, but I have no proof for that either. But they had jigsaws with steel wires, which could cut steel with the addition of diamond powder and some oil on the wire. I have no pictures for that but some ITO TSUBA with long hairline cuts were made with these saws (unless the artists had a LASER cutter). The idea of TEKKOTSU being produced by wear on clothes does not die out, it seems. There are some facts that suggest strongly it is impossible. 1. The so called 'bones' are not steel but iron. If wear was the cause of harder material standing out, it would have worn away the softer TEKKOTSU, but this would have taken thousands of years of permanent rubbing! 2. I have forged samples to produce TEKKOTSU and it is the iron (not the steel) that is more ductile and stands out of the metal matrix of a TSUBA plate. 3. Many TSUBA have been etched in the manufacturing process. Acids attack steel (with carbon content) easily while they work quite slowly on low C-content iron. So if TEKKOTSU was not produced by forging alone but by etching, again the iron stands out while the steel is etched away. 4. Making a mold and casting something like a fine KYO SUKASHI TSUBA in steel is very probably more work than cutting it out with chisels. Today with refined techniques this is still a lot easier. In general, casting makes no sense unless you have a mold which can be re-used to produce large numbers of cheap TSUBA for decoration only. 5. There are many TSUBA design books and sketch papers known. What would be their use if TSUBA were cast? Maybe Ford's competence is more convincing than mine, so I really hope he will join in the discussion.

I believe, we love you all for your humour!