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Newbie - First Purchase


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#1 ScottyT

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:01 PM

I'm thinking of buying the attached Katana however it is unsigned and without papers.....It looks amazing! £5000 though.....What ya think?

 

Thanks

 


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A Spectacular Long Bladed Koto Katana Circa 1490 With Amazing Hamon
With a simply glorious finely polished blade showing within it's Edo polish a deep gully wavy gunome hamon of breath-taking beauty. Original Edo wrap over gilt menuki with pure gold decorated fushi collar [sword hilt mount] depicting deeply chissled takebori Soten fighting samurai in armour, carved horn kashira [pommel]. The tsuba has a silvered applied rim and the design is sukashi piercings showing a circle of arrow flights to complement the fittings. It has a most elegant original Edo lacquer saya most deeply ribbed in black, with light age marks. Copper double habaki blade collar. 29 inch blade tsuba to tip. Signs of light wear but overall superb for age. 29 inch blade tsuba to tip

  

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#2 raaay

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:47 PM

Hi Scotty

sorry but this sword has had an acid polish and over priced IMHO.

If you are willing to spend good money on a sword I suggest you politely look around some of the Uk reputable dealers or collectors you can do much better .

from your statement it is amazing ! at 5K , you need to hit the books and politely do a bit more research /study don't be tempted to jump in and buy on impulse , lots of
help around the UK.

I am not trying to be to negative here but it feels like you are new to collecting swords, so shop around and be patient , plenty of good deals to be had if you look in the
right places.

And also sorry to say this, but the Edo polish was done in the UK, look also at the Tsuka the Fuchi is larger than the handle including the Ito,and this internet site is
knowing too many for there amazing right up's !!!

just my two pence worth,
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Ray :)


#3 Brian

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:52 PM

Wow that is a bad "polish"
Everything to avoid in a blade.
Just have a look through our own for sale section to see lots far better and cheaper.


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#4 paulb

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:53 PM

Can I suggest you take a look at the for sale section here and links to other dealers listed on the site just to see what is available for the money you are thinking of spending. 

£5000 for an unpapered blade with an acid polish is a very high price IMHO

 

edit: sorry others beat me too it but I think the consistent message is very clear


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#5 Brian

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:55 PM

For example: http://www.militaria...okubetsu-hozon/


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#6 Fuuten

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:55 PM

Well no papers, no studying yet. I think everyone will suggest buying a couple of books first.

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#7 ScottyT

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 08:15 PM

Yea I am a newbie, I’ve been researching for a couple of weeks but so much to take in. To be honest I’ve been going off what the seller has been saying. I’m glad I posted this on here now ha, cheers boys. I just want one sword to sit proudly on my fireplace mantlepiece, it will be the centrepiece of the room hence why I prepared to spend a few ££. I’ll have a look at what’s for sale on this site. Thanks

#8 Geraint

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 08:21 PM

Hi Scott and welcome.

 

Have to agree with the advice you have been given.  In addition to the suggestion to buy some books think of joining the Token Society of GB or the Northern Token Society or both.  Get to meet some people and see some swords.

 

It's really tempting to jump right in but a little patience now will see you right in the future.

 

All the best.


Geraint

#9 ScottyT

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 08:24 PM

Thanks for the advice guys!

#10 Andi B.

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:18 PM

To be honest I’ve been going off what the seller has been saying. I’m glad I posted this on here now ha, cheers boys.

Hi, for beginners it's always difficult to verify sellers statements by looking at the sword with unexperienced eyes...
Try to see good blades and fine mountings as many as possible.
My advice is: Hear to your gut feelings and buy a sword only when you can judge the quality (in relation to the price) or if you can ask trustworthy collectors/friends (NMB!) to guide you...
Greetings
Andi B.

#11 ChrisW

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:45 PM

The people here are honest and upfront: they won't steer you wrong. Plus a great deal here can be reasonably had!


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#12 Rivkin

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 12:06 AM

Tsuka looks new, but with old fk (not paired), tsuba, saya, not sure about menuki.

The blade is in very tight itame with rather bright and very characteristically looking hamon... Probably shinto, say around 1630-1640. Remote second chance - shinshinto. Bizen imitation.

It is bright, but 5k pound is just a tad ambitious here. There is some question regarding the polishing quality also, but its not a deal breaker here.

 

I often read about hitting the books, but was never able to see this theory actually working. But after one studies extensively 1,000 or so swords with the help of a few books and hopefully someone who can give advise on how to look at swords, some understanding does tend to settle in. Out of the three components (books, advisor, blades) books are the solid third place.

 

If you are looking for similar blade with a much better investment potential, I would consider signed early Ishido school works (Korekazu, Mitsuhira, etc.etc.), maybe trying to pick up something that has pronounced utsuri - these blades sometimes are very good and very much undervalued today.

Aiming at a higher price point, Chounsai Tsunatoshi is also a good choice if you are looking for a bright Bizen Ichimonji imitation.

 

Kirill R.



#13 Peter Bleed

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 12:52 AM

1) Find a collector,

2) Contact that person

3) ask for help and a time to chat about swords.

4) GO look at things that person has assembled.Be polite and curious.LOOK

5) get and read BOOKS on swords.

6) Ignore the person who offered you that 5000 Euro sword OMG!


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Peter Bleed

#14 SteveM

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 12:57 AM

After reading some books or looking at other authentic swords, you may start to rethink the idea of putting a £5000  antique Japanese sword over the fireplace.

 

There are other swords that would be good for this kind of display. The temperature variations, the exposure to the damp in the air, and the temptation for curious visitors to touch it, make me worry for the health of the sword. Best to display a replica, or maybe, maybe, a WW2-era blade, provided you are vigilant about keeping curious visitors' fingerprints off of it. But a tokubetsu hozon sword over the fireplace? Not unless its in its own climate-controlled glass case. 

 

 


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#15 brannow

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 02:22 AM

Agree with what others have said above.  For that kind of money you will be able to buy a pretty nice sword!



#16 Ken-Hawaii

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 02:22 AM

Steve hit a very key point. If you put a bare steel blade in a room with any significant humidity, what you'll be admiring is rust! The blade you were looking it is in koshirae, which looks impressive, but was really only used in battle. For all other times, it was stored in a plain wood casing called shirasaya. And most Samurai houses also had specially-made chests called katanadansu (katana tansu) for long-term storage.

 

If you want a blade that you CAN put over your mantel, spend a few hundred dollars on an aluminum iaito, which looks like a Nihonto, but is used in the martial art called iaido. It won't rust, & unless there's an expert visiting, no one will be able to tell the diference, even by picking it up.

 

Welcome to the forum.


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but it takes a special kind of human to rise to life's challenges for a lifetime.


#17 reeder

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 02:25 AM

Ouch. Sorry to hear. Hopefully it can be returned for a refund.

Brandon

 

Collecting Type 98 & Type 3 Gendaito


#18 ScottyT

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 05:21 PM

I've not purchased it....and don't intend to now you guys have had a say. I'm after the real deal, I'm not into imitations. (I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, kinda like i wouldn't wear a fake watch because I know its not real even though others think it is)......if i need a climate controlled glass case then i'll have to buy a climate controlled glass case haha.....or maybe take the cheaper option and store it somewhere else. I've been in touch with Token Society of GB  so the ball is now rolling, i'll hopefully get to see a few up close and personal before i buy with some decent advice behind me. In the meantime I'll carry on researching.....soooooooooo much to take in!. Thanks for your help, I'll keep you updated. £7000 budget for signed and papered koto period Katana?? Here's hoping



#19 Brian

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 06:40 PM

Easily. You should get something nice.
Avoid the newbie tendency (many of us were there) of looking for flashy wild hamon that are as prominent as they can get.
Rather take some time to look at hada and refined hamon.


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#20 Stephen

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 07:21 PM

First off id make a meeting or arms fair...members will help you im sure.
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#21 Rivkin

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:15 PM

£7000 budget for signed and papered koto period Katana?? Here's hoping

 

Ok, so we jump from an unsigned unpapered shinto to signed papered koto… why? Do you like koto? You are ready to pay significant premium for having the signature, knowing that most likely with this price range it means Muromachi name of mid to no significance? 

 

Kirill R.


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#22 ScottyT

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:33 PM

Because I can

#23 Austus

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:38 PM

Aren't you glad you asked?   You should be.  Too many others paid too much and then couldn't get get what they really wanted.  Now you can start figuring out what you really want.


Austus M.


#24 ScottyT

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:47 PM

I just want the best I can get for my money. Yea that could of been a costly mistake ha some very knowledgable people in here so I’ll follow the advice....I quite like knowing I’d be the owner of a 500 year old sword that’s why I chose koto period....if you read the description of the sword I posted that also says koto era? why have I changed my mind and want signed and papered? because of the advice on here! Anywayzzz these names may not mean anything to me now but they will done soon enough ha
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#25 Ken-Hawaii

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 04:50 AM

A fellow NMB member wrote this important article, which might help you to get focused: http://www.nihontome.../Collecting.pdf


Ken Goldstein

 

Anyone can be tough for a season,

but it takes a special kind of human to rise to life's challenges for a lifetime.





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