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katana showato gunto

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#1 Rei Sinn

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 06:58 AM

I apologize if I'm posting this in the wrong forum section. I was wondering what this is and particularly what the age of the sword is. There are two distinct types of temper lines on the blade, which seem unusual to me. The nagasa measures 26 inches and the length 34 inches.

Thanks guys!

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Rei

#2 Hamfish

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 07:13 AM

It's a neat model 98 shingunto with showato 'non traditional made blade dating form ww2. Probably 40s.

There may be a date on the nengo or other side.

Seki signed Smith is Kane something.
Sorry I can't help more. In a boring TAFE course
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#3 John A Stuart

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 07:37 AM

Okada Kanesada. John



#4 16k

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 08:48 AM

I think it is oil tempered
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#5 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 09:34 AM

Seems to be a higher quality forged Showato, perhaps even water quenched.


John


#6 vajo

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 10:35 AM

Good Showa-to, nothing wrong with it.  Interesting Hamon pattern. I see no hada, so it is oil tempered.


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#7 george trotter

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 11:02 AM

In 1982 I had a sword by this same man. Same hamon and good quality Kyu-gunto company grade mounts with mon. No date, signed OKADA KANESADA SAKU with SEKI stamp. Nagasa 67.6 cm. Being kyu-gunto mounts the nakago was a bit slimmer than the usual Type 98 mounted nakago...2.5 cm at rear of habaki and 1.5 just befor curve of jiri starts. No idea why it was in kyu-gunto mounts, especially as it had the SEKI stamp which only began c.1941?. Mine was his own mei, not nakirishimei like the OP (can post if requested). Mine was definitely showato.

Hope this helps.


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George Trotter

#8 Rei Sinn

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 03:37 PM

Gentleman, thank you all for your input! George, I would be honored to see your specimen as I have never seen any other sword with this pattern hamon! Your kyu gunto mounts seem to be a bit of an anomaly as well. It's strange, since I found this particular showa-to mounted in koshirae which once had a mon that was plucked out of the kashira. I'm not entirely sure if the koshirae was switched. Perhaps our Kanesada-san was more recognized than the more common Showa smiths?
Rei

#9 george trotter

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 05:06 PM

Hi Rei,

Yes, interesting.

Like you say, even though the two swords we discuss are showato, he seems to be more interesting than most Seki showato smiths.

Jinsoo Kim's list gives him as becoming a Seki smith on Sho 14.10.28 (28 Oct. 1939). His full name is Okada Sadao.

I don't have the sword any more or any photos either...just this oshigata. 

Hope it is of use.

 

 

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#10 Rei Sinn

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 05:21 PM

George your information is invaluable to me. Seems that Sadao-san had a rather elegant signature which he surrendered to the unfortunate standards and demands of war. In this respect, the nakirishimei seems to be a small tragedy. The comparison is interesting nonetheless.
Rei

#11 Blazeaglory

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 06:42 PM

Very cool. I love how we continue to find these treasures!
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#12 Mister Gunto

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:51 AM

Nice original WW2-era blade and Shin-gunto mounts! I love when the hamon transitions from a wavy Choji-type pattern into a straight Suguha. 


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#13 george trotter

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 06:48 AM

Just a sketch of my Okada Kanesada hamon taken from my original data sheet of 1982. Sorry now I didn't bother to photograph my swords then.

Not much help I know, but just a little bit more info for your Kanesada file.

Regards,

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#14 Rei Sinn

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:47 AM

George I'm sure photographing a sword in 1982 would have been a lot different compared to our modern digital age! Not nearly as convenient back then. Again, much appreciated.
Rei

#15 vajo

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:57 AM

Its a really interesting hamon pattern. Is a gendaito known from this smith?

#16 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 08:40 AM

 I see no hada, so it is oil tempered.

 

???


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#17 Blazeaglory

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:33 PM

Yah I was wondering about that.

Oil quenching a sword removes hada? I would think hada is always visible if there.
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#18 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 11:02 PM

Yah I was wondering about that.

Oil quenching a sword removes hada? I would think hada is always visible if there.

 

???


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Franco

#19 Brian

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:02 AM

Wartime mass produced or non-traditionally made = usually lack of hada = not forged and folded.
wartime mass produced or non-traditionally made = oil quenching, as this is less destructive than water.
Therefore Showato usually are oil quenched and lack hada.
It's not that one causes the other. Just that one present usually means the other is true.


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#20 vajo

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 02:56 PM

Showa-to are often made from very high quality industrial dense steel. They are not folded and oil hardend. So you see no hada because it doesn't exist.
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#21 Blazeaglory

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 05:26 PM

???


In reference to a separate quote, "I see no hada, so oil quenched"
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#22 Blazeaglory

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 05:28 PM

Wartime mass produced or non-traditionally made = usually lack of hada = not forged and folded.
wartime mass produced or non-traditionally made = oil quenching, as this is less destructive than water.
Therefore Showato usually are oil quenched and lack hada.
It's not that one causes the other. Just that one present usually means the other is true.


Ahhh that makes sense and was what I was thinking. So in reality, oil quenching has nothing to do with it. It's the fact that the steel isn't traditionally folded. That's where I was confused.

Thanks ☺
Dwain H.

#23 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 07:51 AM

Wartime mass produced or non-traditionally made = usually lack of hada = not forged and folded.
wartime mass produced or non-traditionally made = oil quenching, as this is less destructive than water.
Therefore Showato usually are oil quenched and lack hada.
It's not that one causes the other. Just that one present usually means the other is true.

 

:thumbsup:   :beer:


_________
Regards,

Franco





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