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Need Help With Signature Of Very Old Wakizashi With Difficult Hamon?

wakizashi translation koto polishing

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#1 Geoffry Persoon

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 03:10 AM

Hello everybody i am from Holland and hoped that somebody could give me some info about a short antique wakizashi?
I like to get some info if it is possible about who made the sword?
And when is it made?
And what kind of crazywild hamon is this?
A while ago i bought an old short wakizashi with a nice old and signed tang onthe sword.
The total length is 51 cm.
The cuttig edge is 38,5 cm
The edge thicknes is 0,6 cm.
And the edge widenes is 2,7 cm.
My friend is polishing swords for some years now and i brought him the blade to show his polishing skills.
After a week he phoned me up and told me that it might be a n important blade because he had never seen such a wild and misty kristal hamon in his life.
He did not know what kind of hamon this was.
So maybe someone can tell me something about this mystery blade?
The seller thought it might be made around 1500 and he called it a Magoroku blade or signature.
I did not understand it very well that's why i am asking the expert here.
Thanks for everyone who wants to help me out!!

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Geoffry

#2 Geoffry Persoon

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 03:14 AM

The pictures may be a bit different from each other because you see some different polishing stages.
And it is not finished yet.
I will post the final pictures when i have received my waki from him.
Can't wait hehe
Geoffry

#3 Hamfish

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 05:30 AM

I do love  Magoroku kanemoto works. But im a real novice with quality mino works, but iv never seen suck a busy hamon on a mino koto blade before. but here a 2  

magoroku kanemoto to compare to.

 

FYI if I had money I would have these hands down, they are sexy.

http://www.aoijapan....nemoto-magoroku

 

http://www.aoijapan....thk-hozon-paper


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#4 SAS

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 07:11 AM

Hamon looks like it is approaching crab claw style. Lots of activity there.


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#5 ROKUJURO

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 11:26 AM

Pluto,

please be so kind to sign all posts with a real first name plus an initial, so we can address you politely.

And please do not give your KO-WAKIZASHI to an amateur who will very probably ruin your blade with his polishing attempts! Have a professional have a close look at it. You have KUNITARO-SAN in Amsterdam who is a member here!


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Regards,

Jean C.

#6 Dr Fox

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 12:15 PM

Pluto,

please be so kind to sign all posts with a real first name plus an initial, so we can address you politely.

And please do not give your KO-WAKIZASHI to an amateur who will very probably ruin your blade with his polishing attempts! Have a professional have a close look at it. You have KUNITARO-SAN in Amsterdam who is a member here!

 

 

 

Jean according to the post, if your advice has not been heeded its now too late!


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#7 Geoffry Persoon

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 07:20 PM

Hello sir i have changed my nick to my real name sir.
Thank you for your comments.
I have phoned my polisher and going to try to contact the polisher in Amsterdam.
Best regards
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Geoffry

#8 Brian

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:13 PM

http://www.militaria...rvice-in-japan/


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#9 Dr Fox

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 09:50 PM

Hello sir i have changed my nick to my real name sir.
Thank you for your comments.
I have phoned my polisher and going to try to contact the polisher in Amsterdam.
Best regards

 

 

Geoffrey.

May I be clear, that I do not cast any doubts on the skills of the polisher you are using! Polishing a blade by its nature removes metal.

If this is done with a final professional outcome, then all is well.

If this is not the case, then the next polish is in the nature of a repair.

This is not where you would want to be!

There is always a cost consideration to using the very best, so with that in mind delay, until you have all the best information available, then, and only then, should a polish decision be made.


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Denis

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#10 Geoffry Persoon

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 11:35 PM

Hello sir i have contact my polisher today and told him your opinion.
He agreed with it and has stopped the polishing project.
He did not remove a lot of the sword sir.
He was polishing with the uchigumori do stone.
And he made some slurry with this stone together with the mikawa nagura stone.
He made the slurry very very fine so there didn't come any scratches in the blade at all sir.
But now you can clearly see the hamon on the blade sir.
And there is a lot more to see like an almost silver foggy temperline sir.
And on the tops of the peaks you see very nice kristals everywhere.
But it is almost not possible to take a picture and show it sir.
Because what you see is not 50% of the beauty of the blade sir.
Thank you for your opinion and inwill let an expert look at it sir.
I have got some extra pictures of my polishing friend to show you the blade.
I'll hope this will help trying to find out who made it.
Thanks everybody for helping me.
Geoffry

#11 Geoffry Persoon

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 11:42 PM

Here are some extra pictures of the wakizashi.
Maybe this will help .
I'll hope so .
Geoffry

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#12 Stephen

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 12:21 AM

be sure to check the last photo does it show a crack or just a stain?


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#13 jason_mazzy

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 12:31 AM

looks like  a standard spider rust


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#14 Dr Fox

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 01:21 AM

Geoffry.

 

What ever you decide, just remember you are a custodian of a work of art, as others were before you.

Do as we do, enjoy your responsibilities, its a privilege.

But do nothing that will damage, or be seen as irresponsible.

Value of the item does not increase or diminish your responsibility of care.

Your present stated intent, i would like to think will stand you in good stead, with the senior members on this site.

And Geoffry with all due respect to you, I am not a 'Sir', so at this moment in time, I extend to you my thanks for your consideration.


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#15 SteveM

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 01:40 AM

Magoroku (孫六) usually refers to a smith whose "family" or professional name was Kanemoto (兼元) from the old province of Mino, in the town of Seki.

 

There is something that looks like "roku" (六) at the bottom of the tang, so I can see why your friend might think of Magoroku. Unfortunately the signature is too obscured to say with any certainty whether this is Magoroku or not. Personally, I have my doubts. I don't know if there are any Kanemoto/Magoroku swords in existence with just a three-signature name on them, and the kanji on this sword seem very lightly etched into the steel rather than carved. What you really want to do, though, is look at the sword itself and see if the sword's traits match with those of Kanemoto/Magoroku. There are some reference materials on this site to browse through, and if you get creative with your search engine you should be able to find samples of Magoroku swords on the internet. 

 

http://nihontoclub.c...ns&mei=Magoroku

 

 

Note: There is today a commercial manufacturer of high-grade knives in Japan called "Seki Magoroku" 関孫六, so any search inevitably pulls up a lot of references to this modern factory. 


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#16 Geoffry Persoon

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 03:47 AM

Thank you guys for your help.
Stephen there is no crack in the blade at all.
It looks like a crack but it is something like a black vain or something.
I will use your tips and hoping to get a bit further in my search.
Cheers
Geoffry
Geoffry

#17 Greg F

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 01:17 PM

Hello Geoffry, I thought there was a crack or something strange as well, is there any line or anything on other side of nakago? I hope you show us the blade when its polished I think it has good potential. Its good your friend ceased work on the blade and didnt disagree on a professional taking over. All the best.

Greg

#18 Geoffry Persoon

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 04:50 PM

Thank you Greg and i will post the pictures when the pro polisher has finished the blade.
Cheers
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