When did shirasaya start?

[Geraint]

Dear All.

 

So a birthday road trip with my lovely wife and she starts asking me about swords.  Out of nowhere the question, 'When did shirasaya start being used?'       Looong silence.......until I realised I had no idea and had never read anything about this.

 

Any ideas folks?

 

All the best.

[Mikaveli]

I found a few blogs etc. that say late Edo onwards - but not why (or any sources).

 

Others said post Meiji sword ban, but likewise.

 

Interesting question, as it's certainly something I just took for granted 😅

[Scogg]

I sent an inquiry to someone I think will have this answer to this. A good question!

 

I’ll update if he gets back to me.

-Sam 

[Geraint]

Thank you both, I too took this for granted.  My wife has a way of asking such killer questions, friends of our who were police officers reckon that she missed her vocation and would have been great at interrogation!

 

All the best.

[Bazza]

You too Geraint!??  I've always said this about (and to) my wife.  She has an unerring ability to go for the jugular...

 

BaZZa.

[PNSSHOGUN]

If memory serves me right it may have originated from larger Daimyo collections. 

[Mark S.]

So then this begs the obvious follow-up… what was before?  Simply stored in koshirae all the time - which is currently believed to be detrimental to blades for long-term storage?  

[Bugyotsuji]

Good question, so I too will float this at the next 'opportunity' (gathering of sword know-it-alls).

 

Something I heard a year or two back was the existence of the 'abura-saya'. Following use, a sword blade was oiled and placed into a wooden saya which, from the residual oil, turned a darker and darker hue with usage and time. At some point the blade was then cleaned and placed inside a shirasaya, a white-wood sheath for long-term storage. The difference between a shirasaya and an abura-saya was visible in the colour, i.e. the oil staining. 

 

As to the historical record, the first occurrence of dual usage, shirasaya for long-term, as opposed to battlefield koshirae for the short-term, I am all ears.

 

[French nihonto]

At the time, I posted this video, showing late Edo shirasaya swords from the shogun's collection.

https://youtu.be/-uuKZEkuwUc?si=WqrikoHZH1GFcejr

[Ooitame]

To add, why does Shirasaya from what I have seen mainly use horn and Koshirae wood of some sort for mekugi pin?

[Scogg]

Unfortunately, the craftsmen I contacted did not have the answer for us. He did mention that during his time training in Japan, he did not remember ever hearing about the start of shirasaya. 
 

Mystery continues, 

-Sam 

[SteveM]

4 hours ago, Ooitame said:

Shirasaya from what I have seen mainly use horn and Koshirae wood of some sort for mekugi pin?

 

Usually bamboo is used for mekugi on swords when they are out and in use (i.e. not in the shirasaya). Longtime NMB member Guido Schiller said that bamboo is used because bamboo doesn't make a clean break when its placed under stress, which would allow the sword to fly out of the handle. Instead, bamboo is fibrous so it might split under stress, but the strands of bamboo will retain some structural integrity, so your sword has less of a chance of flying out of the tsuka. It sounds like a very plausible explanation to me. 

 

For shirasaya, I think bamboo is actually the default material, but horn is an inexpensive, nice-looking, and long-lasting upgrade, so you see a lot of it being used. The sword in the resting (shirasaya) tsuka isn't under a lot of stress, so the mekugi doesn't need to be bamboo. 

[Ooitame]

Thanks @SteveM, that does make sense. I did have one bambo mekugi break but stayed together from the fiber.

[Brian]

Horn is also fibrous and won't just snap....so I guess it performs the same function but a bit more classy. Mekugi are chosen because they have a structure of fibers running lengthways, which gives strength and don't separate easily when broken, as mentioned above.

[KungFooey]

Shirasaya originated in the mid-Edo period when the Honami family of appraisers were employed to evaluate, authenticate and index the sword collections of important families. 

These families had many swords in almost permanent storage and so shirasaya were regarded much like the magnolia boxes used to protect valued tea utensils such as bowls and teaspoons. As with these other wooden containers, the Honami would write formal descriptive calligraphy onto the plain white wood. 

Then, following the Meiji Restoration, and the subsequent abolition of wearing swords in 1876, shirasaya became a necessity.

[Caracal]

If that's what you're saying, Shirasaya originated in the mid-Edo period when the Honami family of appraisers were employed to evaluate, authenticate, and index the sword collections of important families.

So what was done in the past to protect and preserve the sword? How were swords preserved from the Kamakura period onwards?

 

[Mikaveli]

This link from the Southern California Naginata Federation states:

 

Quote

Plain wooden saya have been found from the early Edo period, where they were used to protect blades that had been donated to shrines. 

 

Doesn't cite a reference or source, but makes another thread of inquiry.

[Curran]

9 hours ago, KungFooey said:

Shirasaya originated in the mid-Edo period when the Honami family of appraisers were employed to evaluate, authenticate and index the sword collections of important families. 

These families had many swords in almost permanent storage and so shirasaya were regarded much like the magnolia boxes used to protect valued tea utensils such as bowls and teaspoons. As with these other wooden containers, the Honami would write formal descriptive calligraphy onto the plain white wood. 

Then, following the Meiji Restoration, and the subsequent abolition of wearing swords in 1876, shirasaya became a necessity.

 

I'm not as versed in the Honami family as others, but I can confirm that I've seen swords with their previous shirasaya preserved. Some of the shirasaya dated back to the late 1700s or early 1800s, so @KungFooey Deanna's reply joshes well with what I have observed.

      Also, interesting to observe the evolution of the shirasaya with a particular sword. I once had a sword where I felt the shirasaya was as equal or better artistry than the sword inside it.

 

*Groan*, maybe it is time to get off my lazy arse and finally learn more about the Honami.

 

[Franco]

15 hours ago, KungFooey said:

Shirasaya originated in the mid-Edo period

 

Citation required.

[Curran]

On 6/21/2025 at 5:47 PM, Curran said:

*Groan*, maybe it is time to get off my lazy arse and finally learn more about the Honami.

 

 

Got off my lazy arse and actually started reading "The Honami Family" by @Markus (Markus Sesko)  -published 2012.

"Sen no Rikyu was visited by Oda Nobunaga.... (Nobunaga gifts Rikyu with a Masamune)" and "The sword only came in its storage shirasaya, but Rikyu wanted a full mounting..."  (top of page 48).

 

Earlier in this thread, I thought the topic was sayagaki on shirasaya   .

I don't know when that started, but have seen preserved sayagaki on shirasaya from late 1700s or early 1800s, kept nearly as valuable as Honami papers.

 

So, for now, safe to say shirasaya were at least around in Oda Nobunaga and Sen no Rikyu's time.

After all these years, a seemingly simple question can throw me.

I have no idea when shirasaya came in to use, but it sounds they were common enough in the late Muromachi to early Momoyama period.

 

 

[Franco]

Thank you, Curran.

 

I was told by Brian Tschernega that the shirasaya pictured below is an "early" Edo period saya,

and that the habaki was a later Edo period piece.

 

[Curran]

6 hours ago, Franco said:

Thank you, Curran.

 

I was told by Brian Tschernega that the shirasaya pictured below is an "early" Edo period saya,

and that the habaki was a later Edo period piece.

 

 While good at dating patina and age wear on metals, I am very bad at dating the age of wood.  

This was proven long ago with my antique sword kake.  For years, I thought it was circa 1850.

Then looked closer at the bottom and realized it was signed n dated underneath. [ink was a bit hard to see contrasted with the patina].  Turns out it was made 1754.

 

Your saya does remind me of the "pretty one" were I think I was more in love with the shirasaya and the feel of the blade than I was the appearance of the blade.

Beautiful tightly arranged yet symetrical growth grain on yours, as on mine.

Very good blade, but extra lovely shirasaya and feel to the who elegant thing.

 

Those ivory mekugi rings cannot make the trip in and out of the USA anymore.

The last blade I bought was former property of one of the prime-ministers of Japan. It had to have the ivory removed from the shirasaya before export/import. 

 

[Scogg]

Brian T is the individual I previously contacted with this question. He's a really great guy.

This one might be a good question for someone like Mr. Sesko

[Oldman]

Coincidentally, I had this same question come to mind a couple of days before the original post. I don't see that it's actually been answered - does anyone have anything further?

Michael BC

[Bugyotsuji]

You could also look at this another way. When did they start coating wooden saya with lacquer?

 

The question is asked here:  https://intojapanwaraku.com/rock/craft-rock/45531/

Part of 小菅さんの the expert's answer is that some very old sword furnishings in the famous Shoso-in storehouse are lacquered, and that was in order to preserve the wood.

Conversely, the article says that uncoated wooden saya have not survived well because of their fragility compared with the iron blade.

 

So it could be that some form of wooden saya, if not quite the refined 朴の木 hou-no-ki magnolia saya that we are used to seeing today, was used before anything else, or at least in parallel with other possible materials.