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Nihonto community at its usual.

What puzzles me is how addicted it is to words Academic, Scientific, Research, Study. 

Otherwise it would be interesting to read seminar's publication, if it exists (probably it does not).

 

Kirill R.

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I have today written to the institute regarding the comments made in this report about me and the Society. I do not propose to print these here but should anyone wish to see them I will forward a copy.

I made a great mistake. I liked a post on Facebook which supported the NBTHK. As a result it would appear that I am now dishonest commercially driven and stupid. (some of these may be true but certainly not commercially driven) 

I hope when I retire as Chairman of the Token Society I will be remembered for more positive things rather than this diatribe which has little or no foundation in truth.

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Hi Paul 

 

is it another Paul Bowman,  In another  Universe they are mixing you up with !!!    after reading the article it does NOT sound like you  to me .

 

 

OPS,   I MISSED THE NOT OUT IN MY FIRST REPLY , SORRY PAUL 

 

just my two pence worth.

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This is just a continuation of that whole Facebook debacle that started with a former member questioning the whole validity of the seminar and broke into a huge fight about various aspects.
I watched it with interest, since the best way to counter social media battles is to just cease communicating and let it go away.
It was rather sad to see some refusing to let it go and badgering some of our respected members here continuously.
I'm just glad it didn't happen here. Not surprised they continued on that page now, as they seem to refuse to let it die out and go away. You did nothing wrong Paul, that was very obvious. And to be taken to task merely for pressing the "like" button is to me insane. Many just press it to acknowledge they read something. The last thing it means nowadays is that you actually "like" the content.
Once again, FB sucks.

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I don’t know the full story as I try to avoid Facebook as the pla...Coronavirus, but it seems to be a lot of noise about nothing.

 

Damn, I just pressed the "like" button to Paul's post above.... does it mean I’m now considered as an accessory to the crime?  :shock:

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I am always surprised how much negativity in general we have in such a small hobby. I guess politics & other complicated stuff just comes in when hobby is highly specialized like collecting Japanese swords.

 

I am just puzzled by many things that I just read in that link in the opening. I do think it is written in quite passive-aggressive tone. As Nakahara and Nakano have extreme knowledge about Japanese swords it would be interesting to hear what kind of criteria they apply on judging someones knowledge? I mean they might not understand fully that studying Japanese sword outside Japan is a bit different ball game compared to studying in Japan.

 

I would be quite interested to know about the fake sword mentioned there. Was the NBTHK paper legitimate and was it just difference in opinion between Nakahara and NBTHK? Was the certificate a fake one? What sword that was?

 

I do know bits and pieces of background info from various sources and I am using my own brains to think but it is like a game of broken telephone or trying to solve a puzzle with missing pieces.

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Dear Jussi,

I am sorry I cant help you with your questions. I was not involved in the original meeting or subsequent facebook discussions.

Also please forgive me if I say I don't think there is anything to be gained by discussing the initial case that started this. To do so just continues the debate and adds credibility to it which I don't see is of any value.

I am always saddened when as you say such a small community degenerates in to such unpleasant situations. I am afraid it is human nature, perhaps concentrated by the difficulties we are all facing currently.

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I collect other stuffs as well, and trust me, this isn’t limited to this hobby. There are jerks everywhere, opinion fights everywhere and trolls everywhere. It helps accepting it when you think a hobby, a forum, a club, whatever, is just a representation of our world and shows the best and the worst in everyone.

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There are indeed nastier collecting areas than nihonto. And far more dangerous ones.

Nihonto is special in a sense that 99% of expert-researchers at worst are translators of papers and basic Japanese books, at best are capable of memorizing kantei features without giving much thought to whether these rules actually have a solid support in terms of signatures/provenance/other data.

In no other collecting area a dealer with a website filled with translated pages from here and there would be automatically lauded as an Academic Intellectual.

In no other collecting area the most important publication of a year, if not a decade would be something like if you take papers of this color, and the length of a sword is such, and the length of a signature is such, you can then get papers of that color.

 

Kirill R.

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Ok, the full story!(well the best I can recall)

We had an extremely successful event in Utrect a while ago, where everyone seemed to have a good time. A person who we will call the man with many names who lives in Amsterdam was excluded from the event as members from the NBTHK Europe had concerns about this person. Sometime later the man with many names organised another event in Amsterdam and asked Nakahara san to attend. Someone who wishes to remain anonymous, who lives in the EU, was asked to take along an authentically papered sword that he had purchased at the show. The man with many names then discredited the sword, which was upheld by Nakahara san. The sword had been presented at two shinsa panels (hozon and Tokubetsu hozon) and designated Tokubetsu hozon, however, the man with many names and Nakahara san were only 80% convinced and thought the NBTHK could be wrong. Later on Facebook, Agata (a friend of the man with many names) uploaded a post about discovering fake swords and wanted to share their findings with the world. Understandably, people who read the post on Facebook began to ask for more information. However, the person who owned the sword objected to the misinformation being shared. At this point, I stepped in and attempted to play devils advocate and save the integrity of the event. I said that obviously papers are subjective, but I would trust more in NBTHK than people who may have a grudge against the NBTHK. As you can imagine, the subject became heated, so I called a Japanese dealer and asked his opinion. I was informed that one of these people had a grudge against the NBTHK because they sold a sword to someone as genuine, which was failed by the NBTHK. The buyer, who was obviously unhappy, apparently threatened a legal case unless he got his money back, which seemed to make perfect sense to me and so I relayed this on Facebook. At no time did I accuse Nakahara san of selling a fake or dubious sword; this was a fabrication of the man with many names. As you may recall, I did not name any individuals in my post. Subsequently, Paul and I received a series of abusive posts from the man with many names via Agata, although Paul had not even commented on the post, he had just liked it. Not really wanting to get involved with this ridiculous argument, I decided to leave the group. I spoke with the owner of the Facebook page and he immediately removed his own negative comments about the subject. After our discussion,the owner of the page suggested I speak with the man with many names and ask him to remove his hateful comments. To be honest, I just want an easy life and could do without this Facebook crap. When I saw this post today I was incredibly saddened. Paul has done nothing but good within our society; he will take beginners under his wing and give them nothing but positive reinforcement. He has take our society to a whole new level, bringing the society to as many people as possible (at his own expense may I add) I don't post very often on here, but I really feel strongly that an injustice has been done and Paul should be congratulated for doing a great job. I guess you are all wondering who the man with many names is, but I really don't know. All I know is, he organised a polishing service a while back (a search on this forum will help) and from what I understand, many people had their blades ruined. I guess I will probably be the next person to be attacked by the man with many names via Agata, but I really don't care. I simply don't want to see Paul dragged through the mud for trying to do the right thing. Sadly, Paul is not the only person to be attacked in this way, our very own intermediary in Japan who organises Shinsa and services was downplayed as being a security guard at the British Museum when he actually held a much higher position. I hope this clarifies the situation and puts an end to this debacle.

 

Stay safe.

 

Ian

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I've heard this 'man with many names' mentioned before and I think it sounds like he should be shunned from all groups. It sounds like he's just out to make a buck for himself and doesn't care whose reputation he has to trash to do it. Just my two cents.

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May I also add a few comments: Paul is a generous and erudite individual who has been sharing his knowledge graciously to advance the knowledge of this community (refer to the Articles section of this forum) and our own ToKen Society of Great Britain. He does not have any vested interest in promoting the NBTHK and no commercial motivation. He is a learned collector with a wide range of contacts which he deploys to organise events, museum visits and so on for nihonto aficionados to progress their learning. 
 

I believe the real reason Mr Fujimoto aka Kitaro aka Kunitaro (all three of the so-called officers of the so-called Institute happen to be the same individual) has set up his websites is because several of the forum members here showed the truth about his intermediated polishing service with the self-proclaimed master Eto. By distracting people and digressing, by associating himself with Mr Nobuo Nakahara and creating a website titled Institute for Japanese Sword Craft he is trying to re-legitimise himself. 
However, I know and have discussed with Mr Ikeda, Paul Martin and others who have discredited this individual sufficiently. 
 

As a reminder, i urge people to reread the thread about the Japanese Sword Polishing Service (http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/12772-sword-polishing-service-in-Japan/). I think it is disingenuous to claim that Eto is sanctimonious when he admits he was part of the group that falsified records and swords and collected 500 oshigata to prove it. Add to that the incompetent polishing that obscures jihada with gloss polishing, the overstated claims of proper training with the Ikeda family, and it is just too much. 

 

Back to the scurrilous post on Kunitaro’s Institute page: I still do not understand the attack on the individual Paul Bowman and the ToKen Society.
- Everyone knows that papering a sword usually makes it easier to sell. So what? Paul has always said ‘buy the sword and not paper’ and also that the NBTHK knows more than us (also true)

- Furthermore, we did refuse to subsidise the trip of Nakahara, Nakahara’s secretary, Nakano, Kunitaro and his secretary Agata (who has signed the slanderous apocrypha on their website above) to the UK. Our committee was vehemently against paying for the trips and stays of two assistants and Kunitaro! If it were just Nakahara and Nakano it might have been a different matter but why the “excess baggage”? 
- Regarding the Utrecht Samurai Expo, the ToKen Society co-organised the educational programme only. We did not make a single penny out of the entire event. In fact, our members who brought swords for others to study incurred additional expenses. We dedicated tens if not hundreds of hours of our own time for free to create the educational programme so that others can benefit and Paul spent an inordinate amount of time together with NBTHKE on lectures, study materials etc. 
- I also wish to highlight that personally I have not had direct dealings with the so-called Institute and never attended their events but have owned a sword polished by the service intermediated by Fujimoto/ Kunitaro. 
 

I think we need to put behind us the public attacks and invectives. Kunitaro’s vendetta against the NBTHK is well understood by a few of us who know some additional facts. We all need to understand that the NBTHK are experienced people who give judgements and not guarantees. Dealers use those judgement papers for marketing but the same is done with NTHK papers,  Fujishiro papers, NKBKHK papers etc. 

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I am really no one to say anything, but...

 

I think it is truly better that the "whole thing" is out in public.  I deeply appreciate the explanations given by our learned and steadfast friends above and the Good Ship NMB is in safe and strong hands to chart our course through rough waters.  I truly believe we all know 'who is who' in our little Ocean Cruiser.  I have been 'here' since 2008 and marvel at the 12 years passed.  I have learnt much and continue to do so, but more than that I have another group of good, honest people whom I can call good friends.  Good to clear the fronts indeed Peter and I'm sure Paul is not in a seppuku frame of mind...

 

With warmest and sincerest regards,

Barry Thomas

aka BaZZa.

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Dear All,

Thank you all for the positive support over this. When I saw the link and read the post yesterday morning I confess I was initially very angry but also greatly saddened. I have devoted more than 38 years of my life (not 35 as stated in the article) and it felt as though it had been totally worthless. I appreciate this may be an over reaction but I think there is still the 5 year old in all of us that can be hurt by such things.

I admit to being greatly moved and a little embarrassed by the kind words from Ian and Michael. When I took over as Chairman I inherited an organisation with a very strong foundation laid down over the years by such prominent people as Victor Harris, Graham Curtis, Fred Stride and Clive Sinclaire. If it has progressed and developed during my tenure it is the result of the dedication and commitment of the team I have around me, all of whom devote a great amount of time and effort to the subject we all enjoy. 

I sincerely hope that this unpleasant episode can be drawn to an end. There is nothing but harm that can be gained from these continuous vitriolic attacks on various people within our small community. Ultimately if one continues with negativity it reflects on the perpetrator rather than the subject and nothing at all can be gained from it.

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In the grand scheme of things, this is just a glitch in the system and it will pass like many things before it.
At this point, let's end this topic. I'll open it if anyone has anything relevant and worth adding. But I think everything has been said.

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Some people, thankfully few. thrive on discord and bashing. They are soon, for some, and later, for others, exposed. Social media magnifies their effects. I accept nothing of social media until a consensus of sorts by my accepted peers. We all know to whom respect should be given. John

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