Jump to content

Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey


Recommended Posts

A minor update on the Mantetsu mei dateline. I've found a '39, chopped to waki size, but having bothe the Dalian Railway Stamp AND the Koa Isshin mei. It's a Spring of '39 so there might have been a transition early in the year where both appeared together. So for now, here's the mei timeline:

 

 

Showa 19 (1945): 興南一誠 (Kou-nan issei) [only 1 example]

 

Showa 19 (1945): 興南一誠 (Kou-nan issei) [only 1 example]

Do you have the pic?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Showa 19 (1945): 興南一誠 (Kou-nan issei) [only 1 example]

Do you have the pic?

Moritasan! It is an honor. I enjoyed your chart Ohmurasan used on his site!

 

I found this in a collection owned by Beng Chua of Singapore. Here is his page on this one: http://www.kinghouse.sg/collections_frame.asp?cat=8

 

It came with a general grade tassel (I know,this could have been added later).

 

Here are the pics:

 

post-3487-0-79320600-1568292342_thumb.jpgpost-3487-0-25177100-1568292373_thumb.jpgpost-3487-0-24103300-1568292381_thumb.jpgpost-3487-0-10265600-1568292389_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,
Thank you very much for the pics and the link.
I knew this sword for the first time by your posting.
Konan-Issei sword is extremely rare.
 
I ordered a book described about this sword to a secondhand bookstore today, so we'd be able to get some information later.
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

Thank you very much for the pics and the link.

I knew this sword for the first time by your posting.

Konan-Issei sword is extremely rare.

 

I ordered a book described about this sword to a secondhand bookstore today, so we'd be able to get some information later.

That’s great news, thank you! I’m anxious to hear what it says. It’s very good to just know that it’s mentioned in a book.

 

It’s the first not 1945 Mantetsu blade I’ve seen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A minor update on the Mantetsu mei dateline. I've found a '39, chopped to waki size, but having bothe the Dalian Railway Stamp AND the Koa Isshin mei. It's a Spring of '39 so there might have been a transition early in the year where both appeared together. So for now, here's the mei timeline:

 

Showa 13 (1938) Winter - Dalian Railway Stamp; no mei

Showa 14 (1939) Spring – Dalian Railway Stamp; 興亜一心 (Koa-Isshin) 満鉄作之 (Mantetsu Saku Kore)

 

By Dalian Railway Stamp, do you mean the South Manchuria Railway (SMR) company logo?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Manchurian_Railway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posting the latest version of my Mantetsu Study document for anyone interested. I'm hoping someone with an eye for detail might see something interesting that I have missed. Let me know if you do!

 

Not much new lately. Over 160 blades. 60 of the serial numbers are in the "A"s. Some years have obvious groupings, some are all over the place.

 

mantetsu serial numbers (1).pdf

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Japanese army ordnance usually used the iroha (いろは) poem ordering system and not the gojūon system for subassembly numbers.  They would start with イ1 and go up to イ999. After that, they would start with ロ1 and then go up to ロ999.  After using all the katakana characters in the iroha poem, they would switch over to hiragana characters and start all over again!  This back and forth between katakana and hiragana would continue until production ended.

iroha = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroha

gojūon = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gojūon

 

What I find most interesting about your recent Mantetsu 3.0 update is that the 1939 swords appear to be following the iroha order!  I would suggest reexamining your data in light of this and see what happens.  See below for the iroha order starting with 1939 and going into 1940.  The seasons appear to match up so far.

1939

イ 376-S

イ 466-S

ロ 75-S

ニ 190-A

ニ 675-W

ホ 123-W

1940

ホ 538-S

ト 41-S

ト 374-S

ト 450-S

ト 630-S

ト 729-S

Edited by Kiipu
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moritasan! It is an honor. I enjoyed your chart Ohmurasan used on his site!

 

I found this in a collection owned by Beng Chua of Singapore. Here is his page on this one: http://www.kinghouse.sg/collections_frame.asp?cat=8

 

 

Is this 1945 Mantetsu number 622?

= Hiragana i.

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-9?do=findComment&comment=302139

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posting the latest version of my Mantetsu Study document for anyone interested. I'm hoping someone with an eye for detail might see something interesting that I have missed. Let me know if you do!

 

Not much new lately. Over 160 blades. 60 of the serial numbers are in the "A"s. Some years have obvious groupings, some are all over the place.

 

attachicon.gifmantetsu serial numbers (1).pdf

 

Hi,

 

 

S/N of Mantetsu sword was using iroha poem. It isn't  a,i,u,e,o order.

(But, when it was test making in an early stage, ABC was used.)

 
S/N starts from i,ro,ha,.....
i  1,2,3・・・

ro  1,2,3・・・

ha  1,2,3・・・

 

====== Iroha poem =====

イ (i)

ロ (ro)

ハ (ha)

ニ (ni)

ホ (ho)

ヘ (he)

ト (to)

チ (chi)

リ (ri)

ヌ (nu)

ル (ru)

ヲ (o)

ワ (wa)

カ (ka)

ヨ (yo)

タ (ta)

レ (re)

ソ (so)

ツ (tsu)

ネ (ne)

ナ (na)

ラ (ra)

ム (mu)

ウ (u)

ヰ (i/wi)

ノ (no)

オ (o)

ク (ku)

ヤ (ya)

マ (ma)

ケ (ke)

フ (fu)

コ (ko)

エ (e)

テ (te)

ア (a)

サ (sa)

キ (ki)

ユ (yu)

メ (me)

ミ (mi)

シ (shi)

ヱ (e)

ヒ (hi)

モ (mo)

セ (se)

ス (su)

 

end.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

 

S/N of Mantetsu sword was using iroha poem. It isn't  a,i,u,e,o order.

(But, when it was test making in an early stage, ABC was used.)

 

S/N starts from i,ro,ha,.....

i  1,2,3・・・

ro  1,2,3・・・

ha  1,2,3・・・

 

====== Iroha poem =====

イ (i)

ロ (ro)

ハ (ha)

ニ (ni)

ホ (ho)

ヘ (he)

ト (to)

チ (chi)

リ (ri)

ヌ (nu)

ル (ru)

ヲ (o)

ワ (wa)

カ (ka)

ヨ (yo)

タ (ta)

レ (re)

ソ (so)

ツ (tsu)

ネ (ne)

ナ (na)

ラ (ra)

ム (mu)

ウ (u)

ヰ (i/wi)

ノ (no)

オ (o)

ク (ku)

ヤ (ya)

マ (ma)

ケ (ke)

フ (fu)

コ (ko)

エ (e)

テ (te)

ア (a)

サ (sa)

キ (ki)

ユ (yu)

メ (me)

ミ (mi)

シ (shi)

ヱ (e)

ヒ (hi)

モ (mo)

セ (se)

ス (su)

 

end.

Moritasan and Thomas - this is exactly what I needed. I needed someone who could see the data through the eyes of Japanese culture, not my American perspective.

 

Now I have some work to do!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To insert hiragana and katakana characters in Microsoft Word documents.

  • Open a MS Word document and click on the "INSERT" tab in the menu bar.
  • Go to the far right and locate the Symbols box in the toolbar and click “Symbol”.
  • From the drop down menu, click “More Symbols…”.
  • A window should open called "Symbol", it should open in the Symbols tab. On the top left side you should see "Font", type in MS Mincho and press the Enter key [or one can use the drop down menu and scroll down and select it].
  • On the top right hand side of the Window you will find a box called "Subset". Click on the drop down menu until you find "Hiragana" or "Katakana" and click on the one desired.
  • Hover you mouse over the character you want and click it.  The box should turn blue. In the lower right corner of the window, click "Insert".
  • The character should appear in your document.
  • You can also cut and paste this character from your MS Word document into your NMB posts as well.

Enjoy as this is the easy part! Wait until one starts inserting kanji.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

John, thanks, that's "SE" 72

 

Is the nakago too rusty to get the date?

Post #14

The katakana character is YA and not SE.

ヤ 72.

According to your table, this would date to 1942, possibly autumn.

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-1?do=findComment&comment=264433

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 of mine.

 

Post #36.

The second sword pictured is different from all the others in that the katakana character イ is in parentheses (イ).  This detail is important and needs to be recorded as such in the database. 

(イ) 1644

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-2?do=findComment&comment=270357

 

Post #141

And another one!

(イ) 556

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-5?do=findComment&comment=279859

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Post #36.

The second sword pictured is different from all the others in that the katakana character イ is in parentheses (イ).  This detail is important and needs to be recorded as such in the database. 

(イ) 1644

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-2?do=findComment&comment=270357

 

Post #141

And another one!

(イ) 556

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-5?do=findComment&comment=279859

Fabulous Thomas, thanks for the corrections! Can you explain the significance of the parentheses?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good catch! I had saved the pictures but failed to chart the number. I’ll be traveling today and will make all the corrections afterward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Post #36.

The second sword pictured is different from all the others in that the katakana character イ is in parentheses (イ).  This detail is important and needs to be recorded as such in the database. 

(イ) 1644

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-2?do=findComment&comment=270357

 

Post #141

And another one!

(イ) 556

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-5?do=findComment&comment=279859

Cool!That (イ) 1644 is mine :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be helpful for me if the database could distinguish between what kana is being used [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kana]. Typically KATAKANA is written in UPPERCASE while hiragana is written in lowercase.  And yes, spellcheck is going to make your life miserable in MS Word!  No sooner than you type "TO" it will change to "To".  I wonder why they call it progress?

ト = TO

と = to

 

My reason for bringing this up is the following Mantetsu.  I guess they could not find a katakana TO stamp so decided to confound us with a hiragana one instead!

Post #67

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-3?do=findComment&comment=271524

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bruce

Here is one more for you.

昭和庚辰秋(1940 Autumn),興亞一心,滿鐵作之。才(0) 一一一(111).

John,

What da heck is this!? Thanks for the blade, didn't have that; but did you see the book in the background? It looks like a catalog of Mantetsu serial numbers! The website listed in the photo is a South China business group. Do you know anything about them and/or this book?

post-3487-0-19007700-1568583554_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John,

What da heck is this!? Thanks for the blade, didn't have that; but did you see the book in the background? It looks like a catalog of Mantetsu serial numbers! The website listed in the photo is a South China business group. Do you know anything about them and/or this book?

attachicon.gifSmartSelect_20190915-153645_Chrome.jpg

 

The information is coming from the Ohmura website.  It matches exactly.  With that said, it would be interesting to find out what publication reprinted it.  Possibly a club newsletter or such.

http://ohmura-study.net/222.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John,

What da heck is this!? Thanks for the blade, didn't have that; but did you see the book in the background? It looks like a catalog of Mantetsu serial numbers! The website listed in the photo is a South China business group. Do you know anything about them and/or this book?

attachicon.gifSmartSelect_20190915-153645_Chrome.jpg

Bruce

It's me NOT John post the photos of that 1940 Mantetsu.I think the background book is Chinese collector's reprint of Ohmura's Mantetus info.

Trystan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...