Wooden Handled Type 95's

[Cliff]

21 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Never seen anything like it.  But long ago, I learned to "never say never, nor always"  with gunto!

 

I'd ask Stegel or Shamsy.  I've seen saya with no numbers, but none with numbers WAY out of sequence like that.  I wonder if there was a larger number that has somehow been ground off.

 

3 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Waiting for Stegel & Shamsy on this.  In the meantime, I have seen poorly struck numbers and stamps.  This 212xxx is a normal serial number range for a late-war 95.  I think the last number was so lightly struck that it has sort of disappeared over time.  The saya number is really strange, though.

 

The numbers are imbedded in the medal, my wife and I could not feel any other number, just very smooth, it’s very strange 

[Kolekt-To]

Interesting topic. Here's a photo of my "Pineapple" sword. Unfortunately, the serial number on the blade does not match the number on the saya, though both are composed of five numbers. Looking forward to the mystery of Cliff's sword being solved.

[Kiipu]

With the additional picture, the sword shows evidence of rust being removed from the blade.  It seems in the process the last digit got lost in the process and probably the inspection mark too.  The last visible 9 is also faded from the cleaning.  The serial number is thus 21279X.  The style of the serial numbers that remain are consistent with those used by Nagoya.  As for the scabbard, someone else will need to comment on that.

[Stegel]

I agree with Kippu and Bruce on this one, Blade has been cleaned and last digit being faintly struck, was removed.
A nicer picture Cliff, sharper and higher resolution in better lighting would help further.
I have added some examples from the serial number range which we suspect your sword is from, and there are some with the last digit being very faintly struck for you to see.
The scabbard is the first that i have seen with 2 digits, i have seen them with 3 and the orientation of the numbers is correct, however the blades are all in the 300k range. BangBangSan has a few aswell, i tried to find the thread where he posted but had no luck.
So i believe the sword is a Pattern 5, with the last digit of the serial number missing (possibly to over polishing in the past), the scabbard i tend to think is mismatched with another from the 300k serial range, just prior to the introduction of the Pattern 6 version from the Jinsen Arsenal. These have wooden scabbards which are not numbered, and the handle although appearing similar, is more thicker and larger.

BTW- Geoff, please post some clear photos of your swords numbers, 5 digits doesn't sound right to me at the moment.

[BANGBANGSAN]

@Stegel

Here is my 2 Wood handle 95 ,both scabbard has 3 digi #,blade has NO Ser# but Seki mark.

 

[Kiipu]

There is one other scabbard that I remember and it is coming via @Shamsy.

 

On 3/18/2021 at 1:10 AM, Shamsy said:

Mine has number 297 (pretty sure or maybe 2X7?) On the saya. However, it does have a serial number on the blade, very faint. 300103 I'm guessing. Last number is half stamped but 3 is likely. It's in the Jinsen font too.

[Shamsy]

No new comments to add to Cliff's sword. It looks as if a faintly struck number was either too faint to see, too close to the edge and/or obliterated with sanding or rust removal.

[Dave cruit]

Hello. I have what I believe to be a ww2 wooden handled Japanese sword that possibly my grandfather brought home when he was in the war.is this thread still live?

[Brian]

Sure. Go for it.

[Dave cruit]

5 hours ago, Brian said:

Sure. Go for it.

This is it. Numbers on blade and scabbard match. any info would be great. Thank you 

[Bruce Pennington]

@Stegel @Shamsy

 

First variation of the wooden handled Type 95.  Likely made around 1944, but Stegel and Shamsy could narrow that down more accurately.  Small Seki inspector stamp by the number of the Nagoya Army Arsenal.  Nice one.

[Jackelope]

Hi all, I was doing some research on the sword I have, it’s been passed Down for the past three generations now from my Great Grandfather who was an officer and a Sea Bee over in Guam eventually Island hopping to the mainland of Japan where I’m told he acquired this sword during the surrender. He also brought back a pistol, a parachute, and a battle flag. The pistol belongs to my father, the other two I’ve never laid eyes on. But from what I can tell mine is variation 1 of the wood handle. I don’t know all these terms you guys are using but the top part of the scabbard near that retention screw is the same color as the rest of the scabbard, not black like I saw in pics of variation 2. I will post some pics and see what you guys think. I’ve been told my whole life that it was an officer’s sword but boy do I have some news for my father and grandfather. This sword belonged to a working man.

[Stephen]

Nice history,  does the saya have matching numbers.

[Bruce Pennington]

18 hours ago, Jackelope said:

This sword belonged to a working man.

Ha!  

Jim, you are right, a Type 95 made by the Nagoya Army Arsenal, with Seki inspector stamp near the serial number.  Colors are standard/normal for the model.

[Jammil]

Hey y'all. I just came into possession of my late grandfather's Japanese sword. I know nothing about it besides what I've read so far on this thread and what my uncle has told me, which is very little, except that it was given to him during WWII (or taken?). 

 

Not looking to sell the sword but rather try to get the story behind it and where's it been. The wooden handle appears to be in rough shape as well as the sheeth. I've not even tried to clean this and wanted to get some ideas on restoration. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edited May 11 by Jammil
Grammar

[Conway S]

Ricky, 

 

I would leave it as-is aside from trying to treat the rust on the blade. Some recommendations include sewing machine or gun oil. 

 

In case you were wondering, the stamp in front of the serial number is the Seki stamp - 関

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Ricky!

Sam - @Scogg - can give you more details on yours.

 

Here's a couple of good links for your info:

 

Japanese sword care - Japaneseswordindex.com

 

Type 95 Japanese NCO Swords - Ohmura

 

Japanese Sword Cleaning Kits

 

No need to take the handle off, as there will not be any signature there to see.  I like to clean my gunto, when I first get them, with an oiled rag to remove dirt and grime.  I lightly oil all the parts, including saya (scabbard) to prevent future rust.

[Scogg]

Hi @Jammil, cool sword, and welcome to the forum!

Admittedly, I'm a bit less privy to the late-war wood handle variants - I know a lot more about the aluminum handle versions.

That being said: Your Type 95 NCO sword is known as the "Pattern 5" version, with the wooden handle (sometimes called a pineapple handle), and metal scabbard. These were manufactured late in the war as resources in Japan became more scarce. I think, conservatively, your sword would date between ~1944 and 1945... B29 bombers took out production by April 1945; and the war ended in the pacific in September. 

Your blade has the SEKI stamp (  関  ), from the "Seki Supervisory Unit of Nagoya Army Arsenal".

I'd take Conway's and Bruce’s advice about restoration.

I am curious though, does it have a matching serial number on the scabbard mouth?
Also, is that a silvery paint on the sword? Or is it an eggshell whiteish color? Looks like silver spray paint from the photos, but it's hard to tell. Pretty common to find these NCO swords with an after-war paint job. 

Thanks for sharing your sword with us, I hope I answered some questions for you.
Condolences about your late grandfather,
All the best,
-Sam

[robinalexander]

Hello Ricky,

 

Good on you for asking before 'restoring' 

 

As mentioned, I also believe in cleaning of dirt/grease but not patina.  IMO there is nothing worse then seeing something genuine like yours that has been polished and buffed so much it looks more like a repro than something that's 'been there'.

 

Having said that, these late war 95's are not suppose to be silver.  The previous post on this thread will give you a good idea of the real finish/colour.  These are a nice piece of history for sure.

 

Sooo personally, I would be looking at removing the silver paint from the tsuka (handle).  I would try Acetone using cotton buds on the grooves and a flattish piece of material etc on the 'raised' sections.  As always, try it first on an inconspicuous section (if u can find one) and don't overdo the quantity of Acetone.  Time and elbow grease often gives a better result. Oil later.

 

N.B ....THERE IS ALSO MERIT IN CONSULTING SOMEONE IN THE FURNITURE RESTORATION BUSINESS FIRST.

 

I don't know if the Saya (scabbard) has been painted...bit hard to see but if it has, I would have to do something about that too.  Again, flat material, even strokes with not to much Acetone....if you go too hard you will remove silver plus any original coat that is under there.  Hold off and have a think about this part of 'restoration ' and maybe others will chime in on this particular subject. 

 

The blade on Type 95's is just steel and, unlike traditionally made blades (Nihonto) yours doesn't require the same special attention. So clean it up a little and lightly oil but please don't buff it.  Shine is ok but buffed blades look ridiculous.  Again this is not Nihonto so you will never get that mirror finish and IMO 95's don't need it.

 

The remains of the NCO leather knot is certainly looks genuine  ...by the look of it, you may loose it if you try to remove...hard to see condition from photos.  If it brittle, I'd leave it where it is....maybe just leather dressing applied gently and sparingly with cotton buds.

 

Finally, not everyone is going to agree with the above so keep asking.

 

Good luck and keep us informed.

Rob