Shamsy

A good idea to pass and wait for a better example.

I'd say it was a reasonable success eleven years on.

The sword looks okay at first glance. Some pretty awful pictures though; perspective distorted, low res, missing key details like the tsuba, blade bohi... The retaining screws are not right, looks to be a replacement on the lower screw and the top screw has something jammed through the hole where the sarute would go? The saya looks weird but may be the terrible perspective of the photo distorting dimensions of the drag. I think it looks alright for the most part. I don't know what you mean with the connection being off? It has the correct 'not mirroring' ito pattern for early Gifu sword, with that sort of 'pushed' look where the front lower retention screw passes through the ito. I can barely read the blade numbers... they should be pretty low as these ito patterns were a brief flash in the earliest range of Gifu production. Missing saya numbers are an issue. Almost certainly ground down and repainted. They can be legitimately missing but that is extremely unlikely in this case. It has real parts with genuine patina, so likely all is real, with minor replacements like the screws.

That explains why the assumption was made that the Rinji Seshiki production was not started until 44. Good to hear Nick is still working away on information for sword collectors

I'm sure that if you are successful in making a replacement liner, you could get some business here from interested folks.

Another repainted saya. Still adding examples to this thread to support my hypothesis. I'd like to get some more of the Pattern 5 though as this is the particular example claimed to have the originally painted 'rare black' saya.

It is a nice group. Sword is not an uncommon contractor sadly and the condition is lower end unfortunately. As a group though, it is worth more because provenance is hard to get. Is there a 'bring-back' paper with the sword? That is really the 'golden goose' of the lot.

Grease? I have some saya that seem to have been choked full of dark black grease that needs to be wiped off whenever the sword is sheathed for any length of time.

Coppers are no way near the rarest Type 95. There are many rarer swords by production volumes and that's not including funny little variants.

Nothing new, you can see better photographs of these swords earlier in the thread. Just an example of a good replica 95 being sold as original.

In a pinch, that is probably a more accurate assessment. Most of the bad ones leave as little information as possible, hoping someone will make an incorrect assumption. I've seen some really sly listings. Avoiding listing or showing one or both serial numbers (because they aren't matched), failure to mention missing parts, obvious 'touch up' jobs... at least this time the issues are plainly listed. One of my least favorite dealers states that all swords are from estate sales unless listed. Apparently they have never had a sword otherwise! It is to add a false sense of originality to swords that I know they mix parts for, touch up and sell missing parts (seppa, saya liners etc.).

Another one. EBay seller actually states the tsuba and scabbard are repainted, though it's pretty obvious. Nice sign of honesty though. If you see this seller with a sword you like, grab it because they are one of the dealers on eBay I would recommend as honest.

Would be nice to wear for a reenactment, even with the inaccuracies.

You missed the best part, John! The photo that shows it is a repaint (though the condition of the saya to the sword makes that obvious).

This deserves a place here as a side note that while uncommon, the restamping of saya to match the blade does happen, when two unmatched pieces are slapped together. It's shoddy work. The parts are original, but the sword has now been doctored to appear as something it isn't to deceive the buyer and attract a higher price.

Another example of a re-painted saya, most likely recently and not period. This is a great example of some obvious tells. The patina of the sword is in no way commensurate with the patina of the saya. The tsuka is not even the same shade of black anymore and shows clear patina, totally absent from the saya except for a few sanded marks. The saya throat is another obvious give away too. The condition of this sword shows it is clearly not even original to the saya. The saya has been restamped and very obviously so. The size and font aren't close and the removal of original numbers is plain to see.

There have been 3 for sale on eBay in the last 5 or more years. Two I good condition, one in very poor condition. These are rare and possibly could be called the pinnacle of police sword collecting. I really like police swords and collecting them was an alternative to 95s, but there doesn't seem to be as much variation. It's awesome to see a whole collection together like this.

Maybe just weird trench art from an old bayonet, maybe some Chinese created oddity, who knows. Thanks for sharing, Bazza. I enjoy seeing unusual things like this, irrespective of origin or age.

Not my forte of sword. The only comment is why on earth you would sell anything that valuable on fleabay? If he sent the sword, the buyer went into the yard and chopped some wood and watermelons with it, then returned it, he'd have zero recourse. They always side with the buyer. Better to go to a good site on commission or sell privately?

The false patina tells me this sword has little true age or wear, but has been artificially darkened and then rubbed clean in places to make it look old. Everything else screams fake, so no difference to the other opinions here.

How much is a car worth? It's the same issue. It depends on all sorts of things.

It'd be great if we could all find some history on our swords. Sadly there's very few that come with any reliable history at all. Good work finding a bit more about yours.

If I bought a good copper handle NCO for $200, you can bet I'd be shamelessly selling it at $6,000!* Sometimes it takes a middleman to recognise the value of an item. You pay for that recognition. It is a gorgeous looking piece of timber, but I know nothing about its worth. *wouldn't happen because I'd not sell it!

I would have suggested a new thread, editing out some posts and retaining the more pertinent ones, but hard to know which people would like to remain and it's not my place to choose really. I think an oddly organised combo is still better than two threads though.

Ah, I just asked for this in the other thread, Bruce! I think the tab should be painted. I've only taken a couple off (easiest way to totally bugger up that soft screw), so I readily agree I may be wrong, but in those instances, the tab was painted green. If it is not, it is my opinion the saya has been properly stripped and repainted, which is why there are no traces of green/brown, no paint on the tab and the patina is entirely lacking, making the sword look mint. That looks very much to be the case with your sword, Erwin. Please post more pictures of the hanging ring, just below this on the saya, the gap between the throat piece and the saya body (where they connect), the blade and the drag. In your favour is that the paint is gloss, too. Though I feel that argument point is getting old and irrelevant, as gloss and mat paint seem to be used throughout production of 95s. I'll post a picture of a black saya pattern 5 which was repainted for comparison. I'm happy for people to have differing opinions, since Stegel and I don't agree on this entirely, provided people can present facts and evidence. Anything written in Dawson's doesn't count!