Shamsy

I think I remember Nick providing some archived directive that stipulated sword length, but quite evidently that was not adhered to, whether it was a shortage of blades and necessity or a simple choice to be lax in enforcement. There are examples of anything from o-tanto to hulking great tachi floating around in military mounts.

I tend to agree with John, more so because lengthy of swords was a personal preference. I'm not sure making a Spring-To dictates a particular length. Who knows though.

Sorry Dave, did I miss something? Why are those swords likely the spring steel ones?

There are a ton of oddities as you state, Dave. It is a shame we will never really be able to distinguish these. Some are well made, some not so... just thinking about that appallingly crude sword a few years ago which we all called fake (I was guilty), until some clever cookie realised it matched a tang rubbing one from F&G... I'll see if I can find that for prosperity. The Chinese made swords are actually quite nice. A hot-stamp on the tang, decent fittings, consistent design. They were called fake for a long time too before people paid attention. Here are some pics, just for interest. They don't really add to this topic much. Apologies for the sword being on the floor. We were all novices once and I did not realise it was disrespectful at the time. Ah, found that sword I remembered (or another example anyway)! Would immediately be dismissed on first glance, but it's a nice example of a Java made sword, produces at the steelworks garrison town in central Java. Shiyawaka Sumara.

Just looks like another fake to me Bruce, with a few touches to try and make it look older. All the same issues as the first. I don't think there's anything of interest here I'm afraid, no new discoveries (except that people are still buying swords without any research or effort prior to purchase).

Ultimately, I cannot really imagine how we would ever differentiate there swords from the dozens of 'island swords' that we have seen. Is there any real way to tell? Was there a stamp, an engraving, a particular 'pattern' proved commonality? It looks like there is little info so doubt we will ever find out, but I would dearly love to know.

While I am pretty confident it is a repro, remember that F&G do talk about the Type 32s that were made in Japan and sold to foreign military's (I think they say these lacked the 'cannonball' stamps), as well as foreign made swords that are basically aesthetically identical. They only briefly mention it, but thought it was worth dredging up some basic from so long ago in case people have forgotten. Oh, they were not talking about the PLA swords either. Those are an entirely different pattern they mention separately. I still think repro; Stephen has mentioned a few times that there were a ton of these made quite a few decades ago, so patina might be genuine, even if the sword is not.

I have seen far cruder fittings on genuine swords. FAR cruder. Are we all so quick to forget the Seki sticker swords? Let me see if I can find the thread to jog some memories. https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/21190-seki-inspection-tag-on-combat-saya/ (you will have to work with the mix of paper and foil stickers/swords shown and follow a few linked threads. There was a better thread but who knows where that was pre 2016...) The late war type 98 kabutogane Dave posted should be enough of a reminder that crude fittings are not a decisive factor. Having said that, I won't comment on the actual sword in question as it would just be a guess. I really don't know if it is genuine. There will be some to say yes, others to say no, as the division on the already post shows. Good luck deciding if your sword is genuine, but consensus is leaning to no.

Absolutely gorgeous to have it all together. What history. The sarute is the same as the one on my mantetsu. It replaced the original cord sarute.

You have done an excellent job of already picking the issues! well done, so I put some extra effort in and grabbed some photos for you. I'll comment on what I feel are the more apparent tells of the sword. Now, I'm looking at photos so don't jump on me and savage if it's not easy to tell. The saya throat is not even, the screw is incorrect and it looks crude. The fuller/bohi starts in the wrong place, is the wrong width, depth and design and terminates in the wrong place. There should be stamps on the guard. The serial numbers are in the wrong place; they are always much further towards the hilt, making them hard to photograph. Regarding the other issues... these are tells but not to be solely relied on. The handles can wear and were hand carved I believe, so there is some variation. Serial numbers come in a range of fonts Washers are sometimes missing, it's old leather after all. Blade sharpness varies, not sure that's a huge give away. Grabbed 3 Ko and 2 Otsu to demonstrate. They are all pretty consistent. Damn I'd forgotten my love affair with Type 32s. Oops, reached upload limit... ah well, that's all you get then!

Remember that all brass was coated with some sort of brown, protective coating from the factory. Polished brass is honest wear or ignorant meddling from people who want shiny. Ultimately though, I'd expect to see more examples of painted tsuba if it was even remotely common. And no, not iron or plain tsuba obviously, I'm talking about decorative patterned tsuba. I guess it's up to you, Dave, whether you clean it off and get it back to spec or leave it as a curiosity and a point of discussion.

Hi Dave. I'm of the opinion the tsuba is likely later painted. The regulations are pretty clear and I cannot see why an officer would so badly deface their symbol of office. The only plausible theory is to avoid the metal reflecting, but that is so flimsy. The 95 saya were painted black purely as a protective measure I believe, and a crude, rushed one at that. Brass does not need the same protection as steel. Iron tsuba were painted black out of necessity , not trend. As to the never say never, my crude late was sword which was painted all black has a brass tsuba, though it is absolutely spartan without any decoration at all.

Absolutely repainted. Where the saya screw has been mangled, there is fresh paint on it.

Pattern 7 and 8 Type 95 have a thin cloth (cotton?) Over the wooden saya which is painted. There is typically no texture though.

Pure fantasy term to sell swords. Any sword carried in aircraft, submarines and tanks is a 'pilot' sword and the overwhelming evidence is that swords of all sizes were carried by all members of the armed forces. Oh, lovely looking sword too!

I remember the picture of army nurses being formally presented swords as souvenirs. I believe it was a bit of a mix how they were handed out, whether collected after a battle, picked from a pile or formally presented in a ceremony.

Thank you, Dave. I was prompted to do a little reading now that there are two suggestions about the period of forging. It fits pretty well. Your sword does best a number of similarities too, though I had thought the sword in question looked suriage. Kanbun-Shinto period (1658 -1683) In this period, the centers of swordmaking were Edo and Osaka, and a new style of sword appeared. This sword has extremely little sori.

Thank you, Robert. Every little piece of information is useful. I understand photographs posted online are not exactly the preferred method, but I REALLY do appreciate it and so does the gentleman I'm relaying information to.

Hi Ken, Confirmed that the blade fits the saya nicely. Smooth in and out, snug but not overly tight.

Nah, you guys are great and I really do appreciate the help. It's not my area of expertise at all.

I will ask, Ken. My understanding is the sword canes as is, no tsuka included.

Hello all, By chance I met a gentleman who collected a lot of odds and ends as a youngster. One of these items was a Japanese sword. I mentioned that I know a great bunch of people who may be able to provide some additional information about it. To me, it looks like a suriage tachi. The measurements provided; the sword is exactly 750mm overall and the tang is 152mm and 29mm wide. Not a lot of rust on the nakago. It has a lovely looking tsuba and the remains of what was also likely a lovely saya, though sadly the lacquer is badly damaged. I'm sure I could get more photos if necessary, but there are no nakago markings sadly. As always, thank you to all our wonderfully knowledgeable members for their ongoing patience and assistance.

Thanks for the info, Trystan. The one I found had them listed as "Japanese Military Officers Sword with lock scabbard". A bit funny to hear it's actually a Chinese copy of a Chinese sword!

Not a Type 95, but saw this and thought I'd be good to post here rather than have it lost in a new thread. Not a fake, a replica Type 32. I'm sure some will be listed as original after some false aginh6though. They are very cheap, coming out of China.

A good idea to pass and wait for a better example.