Shamsy

Repro. Looks exactly like the examples we already have in the thread.

At least this one actually has a habaki! But why mount it in NCO fittings if you can get a traditional koshirae? There was never a shortage of fittings that I am aware of. Some materials, but you can find traditionalfittings in all materials well towards te end of the war. I'm not sure taking fittings belonging to the emperors for your personal blade would have been considered very proper.

I've always been clear in my opinion about historic blades in 95 fittings. There is a thread about it somewhere so I won't repeat my points. I am very sceptical about these. Regarding the black, it is certainly period. Is it original to the sword when it left the arsenal? I think it is extremely unlikely, for the reasons outlined and discussed in the black saya thread. I find myself somewhat unsure why there are black saya now. The ones crudely applied over brown/OD original paint and the more neatly applied are in different categories. Nick seems adamant that there was no shortage of brown paint and red bean was a readily available alternative. So why the black? I really don't know anymore. Can someone with better eyes tell me if the shots attached have rust colouration or are traces of previous paint? Seems to have saved all the pictures as one and in poor resolution... looking mainly at the end near the drag and one mid saya shot.

Yeah, that's my feeling too.

They started at one. I have two digit, three and four digit examples. Dawson lists a single digit sword in the books list.

There have been a number of coppers with replaced iron tsuba and a second screw. The tsuba should be a little thicker though, as the coppers and transitional model to aluminium have a thicker tsuba than later models. There was a little said not too long ago about these coppers with later parts in the history thread for 95s. The fuchi is incorrect though (as already stated), so maybe it is a bit of a hatchet job. I have the parts to 'restore' it, but I'm not a big fan of messing with anything that has been that way so long and isn't a recent monkey job.

Absolutely fake. There are a range of bohi styles and none are like that. Clear signs of a fake, though the other details are okay from a fuzzy photo. Skinny habaki and handle. Fake, but a well made one. Not Polish; they are Iijima. The most obvious sign are the saya serial numbers, but the overall quality of the fuchi stamps and tsuka (suspiciously absent of paint) are also telling. Patina looks artificial. The blade serial numbers are excellent though. Suspension ring is correctly located. Kissaki is a dumpy mess. Both of these swords are a next step up from the usual rubbish. There are similar examples in this thread. It is becoming a bit of a concern.

Your eyes are better than mine, Bruce! I completely missed the ending 3 on the saya, somehow! Not a dud then, but the level of paint wear on the tsuka leaves a lot to be desired.

Looks alright to me, nothing obviously wrong with it. I'd say legit. Not very good photos though. Still can't see the whole sword which is usually important. Iijima tends to be the best examples of repro aged to fake, but that's neither here nor there. Surprised that so much of the details paint is absent from the handle, so that'd be a bit of an issue to me from a collecting standpoint. Edited to remove question of matching number.

More pictures required. There are quite a number of variations to the Kokura stamp. Also, placement on the habaki doesn't really mean anything. In my folder of mistamped swords, there are stamps in the wrong orientation, wrong place, double struck... What I can see that I don't like is the paint, the very sharply bent locking latch and the screw which looks completely wrong. The fit between the fuchi and tsuka is very poor too. Based on one photo, I'd be cautious. With more photos, it would be obvious whether it is a fake or real 95.

Looks like patina to me, Bruce. Hard to tell though.

The saya ring is looking better located, but the sword is the same easily identifiable trash.

Fuchi can be plated. Not sure about tsuba. Looks more like a trick of the light than actual steel colour though. Looks like a cut down sword, though pic quality is very low for me. There are a few swords with handles that have been modified. I have a pattern 5 with the handle being replaced by leather and plexiglass washers. That's not that uncommon and Raymond LeBar has a few examples of this being done to bayonets too. I guess you could call it trench art?

He did ruin a fairly rare Type 95 variant by mixing parts in an effort to make it more valuable. There is a thread on this very forum where Stegel points it out.

Hi George. Have you seen the thread regarding the Rinji swords on Warrelics? Someone definitely has compiled dates for these swords... I just can't remember where or who exactly. As you astutely observe, I'm sure Bruce will remember who and where, if it was not him.

Always going to be dishonest people looking to make a buck. Dishonesty deserves no respect.

I like the blade design, probably only on a whim because it is different. The rest is so much meh. Personally, if I owned it, I'd remove all the koshirae and have a new one made to suit the blade. Patchwork pieces are pretty gaudy and unappealing to me. To me, I emphasise. We all have different tastes and we should respect that.

Fantastic and well done, Bruce! Right on the money, the nut was just on backwards. Sometimes the simple solution is right there in front of us but you were the only one to see it. Cheers for the update, Elco68.

I recognised the saya from a previous listing when the alert popped up this morning. Don't remember the rest of the sword being part of the sale, so good detective work, Trystan. I'd never buy anything from him anyway because you just don't know how much tampering has taken place. He throws rare and prototype around like they're going out of style. Typically the two words that make me take a careful second look with a sceptical eye. I wonder how many frankenswords we see here might have their origins with him.

If anyone is wondering what Red Bean Colour may look like on a Type 95 saya...

As a researcher who's opinion I greatly respect, I reached out to Nick Komyia regarding the three theories about black painted saya. Nick allowed me to copy his response to this forum since not all members are present and active on both. The Black Scabbard Controversy I was asked for my thoughts on the black scabbard controversy related to the Type 95 swords. Did they ever exist as an arsenal finish, were they field refinishes or were they all postwar mutilations, are the 3 major schools of thought, I hear. I find it a waste of time to indulge in speculation, so I’ll only comment based on facts from contemporary documentation. 1. As an Arsenal Finish One of the bigger themes for the Type 95 was a scabbard finish that would prevent rust development. This was because the previous chromed Type 32 scabbards were notorious for their rust problems. But despite earnest efforts since 1917, no solutions could be found during the model life of the Type 32 swords. They tried bluing, zinc-plating, various paints and the new Metallikon spray-plating process developed in 1909, but nothing worked. Thus the Type 95 development process inherited this problem and the 3rd prototype done in 1926 tried out laminated steel scabbards with a layer of brass on the outside, but this, too, was rejected in the field tests as being too heavy. Then around 1932, in the 7th round of prototyping, they introduced Parkerizing and Bondelite coating for the interior and exterior of the scabbard and the exterior was painted a reddish brown. This was well received in the field trial, because of better concealment offered by the paint color. However, paint-chipping and flaking remained a problem when the scabbard banged against something. It was at this stage that the project reduced speed to allow the development of the officer’s Type 94 Gunto to go into the overtake lane. By the time the Type 95 project resumed to modify the 7th generation prototype to be in harmony with the Type 94 officer’s model, Parkerizing seemed to have solved the rust problem, but the easy-to-chip paint finish was never overcome in time for the launch in April 1935. Thus launch specs called for a paraffin-impregnated cotton scabbard cover in the same color as the scabbard paint finish, which was now bluish khaki brown to match the color of the officer’s sword. In view of this painfully meandering course of development history of the scabbard finish above, black paint sounds quite brainless and out of the blue to me, if you can excuse the pun. Reddish brown was the field-proven choice until it became necessary to adopt the same coloring as the Type 94. So it would have sounded more realistic to imagine that the arsenal fell back on that previous choice. By the way, Reddish brown is called Red Bean Color 小豆色 in Japanese, so I will spill the beans below. 2. As a Field Refinish Painting the scabbard black as a field refinish sounds equally outlandish to me. The obvious paint to use in the field for repainting a scabbard would have been the ample supply of Khaki Brown paint used on helmets or canteens and water bottles. Adding a tinge of blue to this yielded the color used on sword scabbards, but I have not seen any shipping manifests listing supplies of that paint, only the Khaki Brown paint used on EM equipment. Both gloss and matte versions were in generous supply, but not black paint, for that matter. You really had to go out of your way to get black paint in the field. If there were tons of field repaints in helmet-color brown and a handful in black, that would lend some credibility, but black could never have been the first choice for a field refinish. So all in all, was a black scabbard impossible? Possible, yes, but very improbable, so long as the standard khaki brown paint was available as a more reasonable alternative. Theoretically, I can only imagine a black scabbard in a super early prototype or in a last ditch situation where you were lucky just to have any paint at all.

Great thought, Bruce! Now that I look at it that seems like an obvious answer, but you're the only one to pick it up! It should be pretty easy to check too. @Elco68, are you able to see any signs the nut might be the wrong way around? Ideally, would you be able to safely undo the screw? With a little care nothing should get damaged. A well fitting screwdriver and a pair of pliers with soft leather over the teeth should do. If it is just on the wrong way, it would be better to put it back the right way anyhow! And probably being harder to remove. But hope Elco will test that... Edit: Made Bruce a meme...

The nuts were rounded and flush to prevent edges from catching in the hand, so that's quite unusual. Thank you very much for confirming, Elco.

Thank you for the input, Thomas. I remember that belief. Much like the 'Type 3' I think it was based on supposition with maybe a couple of convenient facts to support the idea. The naval bayonets, for example, has the blades painted black. The kai-gunto were also generally black in colour. But that doesn't really lend a solid base to the idea. The initial sword that kicked off this thread was the 95 with the naval symbol. To me it looks like something that has pretty obvious been added later (as mentioned, the evidence of sanding, the lack of paint etc). I don't know a lot about the IJN but I there's no suggestion that they utilised 95s, I see no reason to think they did. If you are able to find any evidence at all regarding arsenals producing a run (no matter now small) of Type 95 with a black saya, please let us know! Provided it is a period source, doesn't matter the form; archival, anecdotal, photo... You seem to have a fair collection of reference photos too, so of there are any examples of 95s with saya that are not repainted, not obviously post war and have an appropriate patina, please share these. So far all I I find are period repaints and post war. All assistance and input is welcome!

Must be someone else who also likes to take things apart! I agree with your assessment, Bruce. The nut definitely has the patina, but it is not standard to the same type used from start to finish of 95 production. It would be very difficult to remove or tighten. The flat tip of the screws were punched to help retain the screw already and removal would be considered necessary for repair, so I can't see the sense of it. I'm not sure how you would grind it and then fit and tighten it either. The point of the original system was that you could tighten or undo the screw and nut by applying force to both sides simultaneously. It appears that the tip of the screw protrudes a fair way, when it would otherwise be flush with the nut when tightened. Can you please confirm that @Elco68 and that it's not just a trick of photography?