Shamsy

And this my good fellows, is the sort of deceitful behavior that makes research, collecting and discovery of new/unique/rare 95s so very difficult for us.

I've started wearing my pants correctly.

This sword is back on eBay, item number 174159780952.

Everyone here uses PayPal as far as I know. Providing you sell to a regular board member, most of them have plenty of people who will vouch for their honesty.

He is very generous with sharing information, Brian. I'm sure he would have no issues with it.

Correct, Dan. The Polish swords are a replica, sometimes artificially aged and sold as genuine. The original intent is not deception, but money is a motivation which for some people is stronger than their moral compass.

Someone is going to be sorely disappointed when that Frankenstein arrives...

Thanks for sharing, Trystan. I can't see much of the detail, but I hope they're the same low quality junk. Eventually I suppose the fakes will be near indistinguishable from real swords... or perhaps entirely indistinguishable. Ah well, at least I'll know my small collection is real.

Very happy to keep any I find for you in future, but I can't promise a timeframe of course. Here is a picture of one of the knots for reference, as you requested. They're just the basic ones on eBay from China.

The lack of emblem on the backplate of the handle shows it's not a police sword. Or should I say, the backplate isn't. Someone should check Dawson's.

Oh Ron, if you'd have asked a 2 months earlier... I received a couple of swords with fake tassels, black and brown. I assumed that no one would want them so rather than remove the sarute to get them off, I just cut them off and threw them away. I would have been happy to send you them.

A Chinese fake of a Gifu marked NCO. The main three tells here are the bohi, the placement of the saya ring and the quality/fonts of the stamps.

This one is Chinese, not one of the Polish repro. I don't think the details are improved overall, while the polish swords are almost entirely correct,all Iijima marked from memory and have much better stamps and fonts. The bohi here is classic Chinese, as is the incorrect placement of the saya ring. I'll copy into the fake thread, as an example of a fake Gifu, if I can't find a similar one there.

The pattern 5 vary greatly in quality, Brian. Some are very well crosshatched, some poorly so. There's nothing here that screams anything other than poor quality and worn. There are a certain number of lines that should be standard too, but I can't remember how many that was.

Funny little mounts... Richard? My wakizashi is in very high quality naval mounts which have a very superficial resemblance. I used to think it was a tanto, but it is just slightly too big to qualify. Otherwise it's pretty unique looking to me. Hard to see if it is cut down mounts with an acquired a patina or was originally constructed that way. Your friend made a nice little blade to fit. A tidy package but such a shame you don't have the original blade. That would have answered a lot of questions.

Overpaying now usually works out in a couple of years as prices rise anyway.

Neil has also hit on a very rare exception. If you know, without a shadow of doubt, the sword was brought back mismatched, I'd consider that the same worth as a matching one in collecting value. You know it wasn't a post war replacement, a dealer swap or some other shenanigans. Of course, as we often say around here, a story is worth nothing without tangible proof. Now, Please don't be upset, Neil. I'm not even suggesting you made that up (know you're a completely stand up type), but any future buyer would lose the 'value' imparted by knowing. As a sword passes on, it loses history and becomes heresy to any new buyer without proof. I know the island sword I posted is original, the finding of the sword, a bit of history... to me that makes the sword incredibly valuable as a verified 'genuine' example of a sword with such questionable peers... but if I sold it (not mine to sell and I never would if it was), then it just becomes a 'previous owner said' with absolutely nothing to back it up, making it just another questionable sword from a questionable group of swords littered with fakes and who knows what.

Pretty basic thoughts from me, Dan. Matched is always best! I'd always be looking to upgrade from a mismatched sword to a complete one. However, as you rightly point out, if a sword is rare enough, whether it matches or not is little concern... then apply point 1. Having AN example is better than not, but matching swords are hardly uncommon, so if I was starting a collection, I'd look for matched, unadulterated, neat examples and happily pay a little more for the value and quality.

Here is another 95 with period, but not original, black paint on the saya. This one had faint traces of green/brown around the saya throat (externally).

Very well done with the detective work mate. I saw this sword and immediately discounted it based solely on a couple of observations: - We know that there is a very limited run of pattern 5 with fullers and we know the number range and - These are all Seki stamped - I have a proper pattern 5 from Jinsen (unstamped) and it's not remotely similar to this - I have other pattern 5 with those sort of 'odd marks', which are just poor strikes, so even without the above, I'd assumed it one of those As always, myself and every serious 95 collector should offer you our sincerest appreciation for keeping, researching and sharing your meticulous records.

Thanks Bruce; I must be remembering that discussion with you as that sums up what I remember. Was it Neil who suggested the use of acetone as a chemical that would leave original paint intact? Happy for the thread to evolve into an 'alternatively painted' thread. I'll go and read that SFI discussion and see what I can learn/remember. Edit update: I think some of that discussion took place too early, back when people thought that a couple of sources constituted the limits of our learning. Still see that with Dawson all the time. I think you were doing a good job, Bruce, of following a common thread and looking for an answer while pointing out flaws in what seem to be a sketchy theory. There are a good deal of swords painted very carefully golden. Was theatre that common? Saw this which made me laugh: "I have an early serial numbered copper-hilted gunto, about 60-70 of them known remaining." But then this which is what Neil too has on his pattern 1: "The saya seems to have been painted in gold, but under the greenish paint; traces of gold remaining do not seem to be applied with the round the corner hardware store gold paint but to be a metal treatment." Nick already showed us the example of the aluminum treatment that Japan used and is evident on the transition Suya swords between pattern 1 and 2, so I think we can safely say there is plenty of evidence of pattern 1 saya undercoats which were later abandoned.

Hi Steve, Only my personal preference, but I tend to leave swords as they are. In my experience, as with the black saya and a gold saya, while there may be 'original paint' underneath, there may also just be a mess. I was told a story about a woman's father, a Greek veteran, who brought home a 95 and painted it blue. Definitely not original, but to me that's a part of the history, by a veteran, which makes it worth preserving. Unless you know the repainting is modern and badly done, better to have some genuinely aged paint than a crappy bare metal saya. The mantetsu you have from Ed looks fine. To me, repainting it would devalue the sword. There are a ton of colours and shades used in 95s, all genuine, so could very well be original.

I think I made some vague commitment to follow up with a sword I spoke about. It's period, but not originally black painted. It also has a fair bit of gold paint over the tsuka... I'm interested in further discussion regarding the number of swords with some or all parts painted golden. I've discussed this a little with Stegal and we think these may also be period. Anyone have any solid evidence or tests to determine the veracity of this theory? A theory without evidence is sadly quite useless. Best I can remember is someone talking about celebrating the Emperor's birthday by painting swords gold??

Now it's not the early hours of the morning a nd I'm marginally more awake, I stand by my original assessment. That aligns with what you also think, Stegal.

Very good to know, since I've never taken them apart. I wonder if they're all the same... So far I've seen the following combinations with the Jinsen stamp (this is off the top of my head, would have to look through records to see if there are more I don't remember): Suya and Kokura Suya and Tokyo First Iijima and Tokyo First Gifu and Kokura