Shugyosha

Thanks Paul. It’s easy to forget sometimes (for me) that the pool of knowledge around the subject is continually evolving.

Absolutely. It only got published because it is a representative work. If it was gimei it wouldn't be in there.

Hi Christian, Sorry to be repetitive but I can’t see where the Shinogi fits into this. Also the page you referenced doesn’t show the widening at the mune shown in Bruce and Dave’s pictures.

Hi Bruce, I understand that but was confused by Thomas’s explanation. I don’t believe it’s present on all blades and what you have shown is a widening of the mune. Does the blade also become wider at the mitsukado?

Hi Thomas, I'm struggling to visualise what you mean - surely the shinogi can never be higher than the mune? It's something I'd noted on later swords, maybe shin shinto onwards but is perhaps lost with repeated polishing in older blades? Obviously it's more apparent in some sugata: u-no-kubi and kanmuri otoshi for example but I too would be interested to hear if there was a specific name for it.

And the blade - nothing not to like there.

Hi Robert, Here's a couple of pages from Roald Knutsen's book, Japanese Polearms, that give examples from different time periods:

It's the shorter of the legs. I assumed that front and back legs were side by side...unless of course it's got a tripod thing going on.

The fifth leg provides an additional anchor point on steep slopes and was used for ploughing fields in pre-industrial societies.🤪

Five-legged sheep? 😉

I think you might have found this web page: https://onihonto.com/kanabo-masasada-naginata/ What it is saying is that the jumonji yari by Kunishige is a later attempt to copy Kanabo work rather than an example of that work itself. As Adam says, there isn't a Kunishige recorded as working among the Kanabo smiths (at least as far as a look at Hawley's reveals). From the pictures posted on the other thread, my inclination would be towards a shinto blade rather than koto. This is based on the shortish length and what looks from the photographs like a widening of the blade near the tip and greater curvature (this might be the angle of the photo though). Here's an example of koto naginata sugata: http://www.nihontocraft.com/Kanabo_Masasada_Naginata.htm Shinto more like: https://www.aoijapan.net/naginata-bushyu-shimohara-ju-hiroshige/ https://www.aoijapan.net/naginata-hizen-koku-junin-tosa-kami-fujiwara-tadayoshi/ The reason for this is that naginata had, for the most part, moved from being a battlefield weapon to use for household defence by the lady of the house and so a shorter lighter blade was favoured. So I think you are looking among the shinto smiths signing with a two character signature.

Excellent Piers! Not a bit jealous...😆

I'd say lower given the condition of the blade, that it's unsigned and, as Geraint says, shinshinto. I'd be thinking in terms of the value of the koshirae as a pleasing display piece with the bonus of something interesting to hold it all together so maybe in the $800 to $1,000 range. That might just be my jaded view though. WD40 will help to loosen the habaki. Looking forward to seeing what the rest of the two truck loads look like - the force is clearly with you at the moment.

Hi Robert, Looks like Kunishige.

No, I’m saying your opinion is worth pretty much Jack Sh!t around here because you don’t know enough, same as me. It doesn’t matter if you were right because your opinion is of no value - all of what you said previously is trumped by Ford’s contribution which is (or should have been) the last word. Sorry. If you can’t get that after three attempts at me explaining nicely then you never will.

He may have done, but his is the opinion that counts, not yours. Sorry but that's the way this stuff works. If I agreed with you, (and I don't disagree with you) my view would still be worth nothing as it carries no authority.

Adam, Ford's explanation is definitive. It doesn't matter what explanation you would entertain because you aren't him.

Great blades Gary, can we have some close-ups please?

Adam, Not all opinions are of equal value. Mine and yours are worth less than those of other people who post on here and, where there is more than one possible explanation for how something came about, our opinions will have less credibility than those of certain other people. I for one will back Guido's view over most other board members and if you suggest that Ford Hallam knows nothing because he is a mere artisan, well you're ignoring the fact that he is a pretty decent scholar of his art too and his views are authoritative as there are few who know enough (certainly on NMB and probably generally) to contradict them. I am happy to accept that, given the breadth and depth of this subject and how difficult I find it to take in the information relevant to it, that I will probably be wrong on a more or less daily basis. It's embarassing at times and I'm sure it has lost me plenty of kudos as a board member but it is what it is. The key for me here is to have fun playing the game in terms of discussion and to expand my knowledge if possible, hopefully without hacking too many people off. If, however, you want to be considered as one of the go-to board members for an opinion, you have to earn those stripes and, sorry to state the obvious and I'm not trying to be cruel, but you haven't been around long enough yet to have done so.

Honestly, I've no idea - it's a lot of effort to go to for a fake inscription when something far simpler would have done the job. I think the bottom line is that the NBTHK have authenticated it and that's what will matter at the end of the day. It's a very healthy sword for its age and the new owner will have an interesting story to go with it.

Being a little more generous, it might have been the case that the story was recounted verbally to the person who carved the inscription but who misheard the year: kanoe inu would be 1491, kinoto u would be 1496 or kanoe saru would give 1501 and might be close enough to this smith's known period of work (around 1492) to be plausible.

To be honest Ken, the whole thing is a bit weird. No signature from the smith, yet this odd story recounted at length. It may be my ignorance or poor research, but the combination of Kanoe - U doesn't appear to exist in the Chinese 60 year calendar: http://www.jssus.org/nkp/kanshi.html

Here are the kanji from the paper if it makes anyone's life a little easier in terms of working out the meaning. I can't make any sense of it: 庚卯二月八日童子来鍛冶[ ]多一天君賜名找大刀可得一七日以後来卜日玄某 不審成七十余度鍛此釼作童子又来此釼貳百年迄国土治此羽 向敵不打共不[ ]三年找八地蔵之童子也卜玄給為末世記之置者也

Prices suggested seem low to me...results will be interesting.

Article here on koto Mihara school: http://www.nihontocraft.com/Mihara_Nihonto.html Looks a nice blade by the way.