Jump to content


Photo

Arsenal Stamps.


  • Please log in to reply
312 replies to this topic

#31 SwordGuyJoe

SwordGuyJoe

    Tokubetsu Juyo

  • Members
  • 2,832 posts
  • LocationLand of 10,000 Lakes

Posted 25 July 2010 - 06:49 PM

Along the same lines as Ted, I have a Nagamitsu (Ichihara) sword that has the star stamp on ALL of the fittings (tsuka, tsuba, and seppa). Here are the seppa as example.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Nagamitsu Fittings 1.jpg


#32 csymmes

csymmes

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 26 July 2010 - 12:14 AM

Following with Ted, I've found this on my shin-gunto. While not a stamp, maybe relevant.

-Cowles

Attached Thumbnails

  • DSC_0078_01.JPG
  • DSC_0082_01.JPG
  • DSC_0083_01.JPG


#33 cabowen

cabowen

    Kokuho

  • Members
  • 6,791 posts
  • LocationThe driftless area of WI, USA

Posted 26 July 2010 - 12:18 AM

Looks like the number 92. Not of any real importance, just assembly info most likely....

#34 GregD

GregD

    Chu Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 78 posts

Posted 26 July 2010 - 01:05 AM

Some of mine
Greg

Attached Thumbnails

  • stamp 012.jpg
  • stamp 008.jpg
  • stamp 007.jpg
  • stamp 006.jpg
  • stamp 004.jpg
  • stamp 005.jpg


#35 GregD

GregD

    Chu Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 78 posts

Posted 26 July 2010 - 01:09 AM

more

Attached Thumbnails

  • stamp 019.jpg
  • stamp 017.jpg
  • stamp 016.jpg
  • stamp 014.jpg
  • stamp 015.jpg
  • stamp 011.jpg


#36 David Flynn

David Flynn

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts
  • LocationSydney Australia

Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:58 AM

I think we should leave this to actual stamps on the Nakago.
David




First there is a mountain then there is no mountain, then there is.

#37 Brian

Brian

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 11,578 posts
  • LocationSouth Africa

Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:33 PM

Yep, I agree.
Greg, some nice examples. Would you be able to identify each for those who might not be familiar with them all, as well as for future reference?

Thank,s
Brian

- Admin -


#38 maris

maris

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 3 posts
  • Locationholland

Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:52 PM

I don't know if this is in the right place but here a tiny w stamp wich is on a unsigned sword.

Attached Thumbnails

  • w stamp.jpg

  • Bruce Pennington likes this

#39 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,119 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:06 PM

That looks like a tiny "to" stamp below the "W" stamp. The "to" (as in Tokyo), appears on military fittings and on the blades of NCO swords Type 95.
The W is discussed in Slough I think and often appears on gunto signed Takehisa.

Geo.
George Trotter

#40 David Flynn

David Flynn

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts
  • LocationSydney Australia

Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:14 PM

I've also seen a W stamp on a Yoshiharu.
David




First there is a mountain then there is no mountain, then there is.

#41 Amon

Amon

    Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 151 posts
  • LocationSweden

Posted 27 July 2010 - 08:50 PM

I once owned a YoshiHaru with the W stamp.

Kind regards,
John Amon

#42 loiner1965

loiner1965

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 688 posts
  • Locationyorkshire uk

Posted 27 July 2010 - 09:36 PM

I've also seen a W stamp on a Yoshiharu.


always a debate wether its yoshiharu or yoshitani
Steve B.

#43 mdiddy

mdiddy

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 440 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:26 PM

Here are some Seki stamps off Showato.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Seki4.jpg
  • Seki3.jpg
  • Seki2.jpg
  • Seki1.jpg

Matt J

#44 mdiddy

mdiddy

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 440 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:32 PM

Here are two Nagoya stamps and two Nagoya-like stamps, but alas I'm not sure what they are.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Not Sure2.jpg
  • Not Sure.jpg
  • Nagoya2.jpg
  • Nagoya.jpg

Matt J

#45 mdiddy

mdiddy

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 440 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:38 PM

Here are two anchor stamps, a Showa stamp, and a star stamp from a Kaneaki katana in 1944 mounts. Almost all star stamps I have seen have been mounted in 1944 Type 3 "NLF" mounts. I've only seen a couple in Type 98 mounts. I wonder if this had something to do with the timing of implementing RJT/stamping.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Star.jpg
  • Showa2.jpg
  • Anchor2.jpg
  • Anchor1.jpg

Matt J

#46 mdiddy

mdiddy

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 440 posts

Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:45 PM

Finally, here is a 'W' stamp from a Mantetsu and an interesting 'Patent Patent' stamp from a mumei Kai Gunto. It is upside down here but which is how it looks when holding the nakago. Also interesting is that it is in English? :dunno:

Attached Thumbnails

  • Patent.jpg
  • w1.jpg

Matt J

#47 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,119 posts

Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:11 AM

Matt, I would go so far as to say that all those stamps are "na"...indicating the link to Nagoya arsenal.

just a point for members...there is no "late '44" or "NLF" pattern fittings. They are ONLY "Type 3" . It was slightly incorrect early research which coined these labels.
Official Japanese sources quoted on Ohmura's site show that (probably) due to the decline in stocks of non-ferrous and alloy metals, that
the Type 3 fittings were introduced in Koki 2603 year (1943)...hence Type 3 fittings...largely made of iron.
Star stamped swords will be found in Type 98 fittings also (intro Koki 5598 year = 1938)...these are a variation of Type 94 fittings...intro in Koki 2594 year = 1934.

It is likely that "Type 3" fittings were trialled earlier than 1943 as photos of officers holding them have been noted from 1940 and 1942 (see Fuller "Mil & Civ" p.78 and footnotes 2 & 3: and "Handcannons of Imperial Japan").

It is interesting to see that the "W" stamp appears on so many named and un-named blades and also the "Nishi" (west) in a circle stamp...that is new to me...maybe it is a private company/private smith's stamp like "Matsu" (pine) in a circle stamp?

I think it is good to discuss these seemingly unimportant things as it all adds to the sum total of our knowledge and enjoyment of collecting.
Regards,
Geo.
George Trotter

#48 Stephen

Stephen

    Oyabun

  • Members
  • 9,349 posts
  • LocationIowa

Posted 28 July 2010 - 01:52 PM

George

Good info, i see you did side step the patent patent stamp....lol :rotfl:

                                  Stephen C.

                      USMC      DEC 63      APR 73 

                        ​"Resident curmudgeon  "


#49 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,119 posts

Posted 28 July 2010 - 01:57 PM

Hi Stephen,
yes, that is a wierd one...I think he must have stamped "PATENT" twice...but what patent?...something similar to that patent number stamp often found on showato nakagos? (Slough p. 65 & 98).
Regards,
Geo.
George Trotter

#50 cisco-san

cisco-san

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 740 posts
  • LocationVienna, Austria

Posted 05 August 2010 - 10:05 AM

Hi,

enclosed find my contribution for this great thread.
These two pics are from the book ""Swordsmiths of Japan 1926-1945" from R. Fuller and R. Gregory.
If somebody needs the pics with better resolution - just let me know!

kind Regards
Klaus

Attached Thumbnails

  • 21.jpg
  • 1.jpg

Klaus Schicker

#51 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,119 posts

Posted 05 August 2010 - 02:28 PM

Hi Klaus,
Thanks for the pic...for newer members I should just say that some of the explanations of the meaning of these marks given under this pic have been up-dated...some of it on this very forum.

Just a point about items vi (Na) and vii (Dai or O in a pentagram) I have seen these two together, but not on a blade. They were stamped into the kabuto gane of a high quality Type 98 fittings of a sword. The blade was 2nd generation Hizen Tadahiro and was taken in the fighting at Milne Bay in Papua New Guinea.
I suspect the marks were put on as "custom order" by workmen engaged in fitting quality fittings (the tsuba was the rarer gunto sukashi, but with a mimi of about 5/8 '' (15mm?). Perhaps there was a fittings shop associated with the Osaka/Nagoya arsenals?
Just thought I'd mention it.
George.
George Trotter

#52 cisco-san

cisco-san

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 740 posts
  • LocationVienna, Austria

Posted 05 August 2010 - 05:46 PM

Hi Klaus,
Thanks for the pic...for newer members I should just say that some of the explanations of the meaning of these marks given under this pic have been up-dated...some of it on this very forum.

George.

Dear George,

I was aware about this (e.g. xviii (star stamp) ---> unidentified?!), but I thought this is still a useful information especially for the very rare stamps :roll:
Of course a further "research" is always necessary.
Klaus Schicker

#53 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,119 posts

Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:20 PM

Hi klaus,
yes, for sure I understand you know knowledge has increased...I just added some info for members.
thanks for your post,
George.
George Trotter

#54 Lindus

Lindus

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 1,090 posts
  • LocationCornwall,UK

Posted 06 August 2010 - 01:14 AM

Attached is one I never did find out about,Unsigned Katana with full length HI and fine hanyaki hamon. Mounted in Kyu Gunto army mounts and with two Mon.

Attached Thumbnails

  • kyug7.jpg
  • kyug6.jpg


#55 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,119 posts

Posted 07 August 2010 - 02:30 PM

Hi Lindus,
I waited for a reply, but looks like you have stumped us all. I have not seen this before...it seems double struck to me. The kanji is in an ancient style and I can't translate it...hopefully Morita san or Moriyama san can comment? Because it is in Kyu-gunto mounts I suppose it must be Meiji-Taisho period, possibly very early Showa?

At the risk of loud laughter, may I say that my attempts at translation suggest the two kanji are possibly a mei (reading R to L) Nao --, or as Nao means "mended", "restored", it may be Nao --, meaning this sword was "refurbished", "restored"...? Just a thought.

Regards,
George.
George Trotter

#56 Stephen

Stephen

    Oyabun

  • Members
  • 9,349 posts
  • LocationIowa

Posted 07 August 2010 - 03:20 PM

maybe patent patent ...sorry.

                                  Stephen C.

                      USMC      DEC 63      APR 73 

                        ​"Resident curmudgeon  "


#57 loiner1965

loiner1965

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 688 posts
  • Locationyorkshire uk

Posted 07 August 2010 - 03:37 PM

you are on the ball today stephen............................................in english this means he is very quick / observant etc.....
Steve B.

#58 Lindus

Lindus

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 1,090 posts
  • LocationCornwall,UK

Posted 07 August 2010 - 06:14 PM

Showed it to Ron Greory and Dick Fuller many years ago,same thought that the stamp had been applied twice and possibly a variant form of the Tan...................Think I'll go fishing also usually a fruitless exercise ;) ;)

Thanks anyway folks

Roy

#59 Kurogasa55

Kurogasa55

    Chu Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 36 posts

Posted 16 August 2010 - 10:41 PM

A couple more better pics of the same Gifu stamp (on 1st page)

[attachment=1]01s.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=0]02s.jpg[/attachment]



So this stamp means that the sword was made in Gifu? i have a sword with this stamp on it signed Hiromitsu January 1945, so it would be interesting to know where this guy was located
Brandon

#60 David McDonald

David McDonald

    Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 207 posts

Posted 22 August 2010 - 08:49 AM

Dear All

Today at the San Francisco NTHK shinsa there were two star stamped swords that were
papered

Kanehide dated 1943 and Katsukiyo dated 1944.

I was told that if a star stamped blade was sent to Japan it would be broken up as
a weapon -- so even with papers you would NOT want to send to Japan with the star stamp.
Also I was told that there are oil tempered star stamped blades that would not
get papers so it is all in the blade not the stamp.

later
david



If people would like to take close up pics of the various stamps found, along with any info, and post them in this thread..I will sticky it for future use. This assumes we have a decent number of submissions, and they are clear enough to use here.
Would be good to have a few examples of the Showa stamp, Star stamps, and all the others out there, no matter if Gendai or not. I doubt very many would pass shinsa anyways, and I think we have yet to see a verified star stamp blade pass NBTHK shinsa.

Brian


David McDonald
jswords@mcn.net




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

IPB Skin By Virteq