Those Of You Shipping Nihonto And Other Items To The U.s.a.

[Brian]

We have spoken about it before, but here is more reason to be careful. Note that this affects tortoise shell, ivory, feathers, and pretty much anything you can't prove the origin of. Note that ivory is used on some shirasaya, and of course some koshirae make use of various items.

http://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2016/feb/25/uk-dealers-told-to-destroy-ivory-antiques-in-us/

Scary stuff! Imagine being forced to destroy your fittings in front of a customs officer.

[Mark]

In this thread   http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/18525-shipping-europe-to-the-us/

 

I had commented "As Grey noted same' can be an issue, If shirasaya so can horn parts (trim or mekugi), also note any ivory parts on shirasaya are a big problem, be careful I have had some major issues with Fish and Game recently and they wanted to confiscate a nice gendaito I had mailed"

 

A friend of mine had imported a large amount of militaria (6 figure value) and it included one European sword with ivory scales on the handle, it was a nightmare.

 

They are serious, and not only importing, my issue was exporting, i was sending a gunto out of the U.S.

 

My understanding from dealing with them is the regulations have been on the books for a long time, but a year or so ago they decided to start enforcing them. I had no idea this was an issue till i had the problem. I think they are just getting started.

[christianmalterre]

read and confirmed!

 

(it is known

- no more Kakemono,just for example...)

 

they rip and burn you the rollerend (if not worse); if this one is done in one of the traditional habits-out of ivory!)

 

Christian

[Ray Singer]

I was in attendance for the entirety of the Miami Beach show and there was considerable concern among dealers. As the dealer mentions in that article, this situation has become a deterrent to some returning for future US-based shows. Imagine if a koshirae like the one below had caught the attention of officials. Considering possible issues with both the ivory and same, there would be not much left.

 

http://www.nihonto.com/11.7.15.html

 

Regards,

Ray

[christianmalterre]

Thank you Ray, for posting this exemplaire!

 

i have to second definitely!

Such kind of art- (no matter how old or how certified!)-no longer is possible to trade with full confidence...(least-as long the purchase is not belonging/staying in own country)

there had ben several of these thematics reportet already in last months...(known names and auction houses included,of course...)

 

Christian

[Fuuten]

I'm very sorry for some people who think this is justified, but reading that just makes me mad..

[Ken-Hawaii]

Nothing is done so badly that politicians can't make it worse!  As much as I agree with saving elephants & other sources of ivory, Hawaii's new ban on ivory is ridiculous.  You can keep what you already own, but you can never sell, trade, or even give it away!  And that includes things like pianos with ivory keys, for example.  Other states are looking closely at copying what we're doing, too.  Scary!

 

Ken

 

[ken kata]

" Ignorance is not a bad word, but, it does cause a lot of problems"   - Alton Takata   

 

All my "collector clients" have Ivory in their cues.

These cues cost 10 G +... and, they each got many cues.

They want matching custom Ivory Joint Protectors from me.

There is no substitute for real Ivory.

None of the synthetic "alternative " Ivory products come close to matching Ivory.

I've worked with all of them.

They will not look the same when next to real Ivory.

 

Can you imagine how much $$ they will lose, or, get stuck with.

All those collectable investments. Gone..

 

Me, I stopped.. My clients are in turmoil..

 

 

At the February Japanese Sword Society Meeting, a lady approached our formal president Albert, and asked about the Ray Skins on the Tsuka..

Ahhhhh...

 

 

Alton Takata

[Darcy]

I had to give a report once on the rayskins on tsuka. These are least concern species. And there are antique exemptions but shirasaya won't be exempt. 

 

It's probably a good idea to get papers for any koshirae going in and out just as a precaution so that it can be shown to be antique. 

 

Overall from the tone of the dealers in the articles I read, and knowing how a lot of people are fond of bending the rules, my interpretation is that these dealers were fully aware what they were doing was not allowed but they did it because "it's never beena problem before." Similarly I try to tell people to ship with their stuff declared and the right codes and so on and I get back the same thing, "But it's never been a problem before."

 

Well doing it wrong is never a problem until they catch you doing it wrong. Now it's a problem. 

Like if you put one bullet in a gun and pull the trigger, you can't be surprised when you get shot on the sixth hammer down because "it was never a problem before" when you go through the empty rounds. These guys got off very easy who had their ivory parts destroyed and the fact that they complained strongly about it after the fact tells me that they were being super casual walking into this. They had never been caught and that made them complacent. 

 

So they don't feel like it's a slap on the wrist, but it was. They have power to take it all of they want or destroy it all if they want, and if they saw fit to give you a warning then you should be saying thank you sir, thanks very much. They don't make the rules, they enforce them and customs officials are like servants of god. You don't mess with them and customs laws. 

 

Anyway about the ivory, the problem is that as long as they make any market for it whatsover, then poachers will keep shooting elephants. If the USA wants China to stop then the USA has to stop. Everyone has to play by the same rules. 

 

Look at posts on this board sometimes about people who want to bend or break rules related to swords. Those same guys are out there looking to game the system so they can get their ivory. It sucks, but raping and burning the world in order to get some trinkets ultimately has an end game and this is it. 

 

I have a little Japanese sculpture of ivory and that thing is staying put beside my bed forever. 

 

For us we need to get a good resource sheet that can be hosted on this site and disseminated to all collectors that states all of the species that are used on a common koshirae. The NBTHK/AB should be involved in this and any of the NTHK people. With some organization signoffs and then with papers from either of these organizations, this is the kind of thing that will help on all of the other organic materials that are found on koshirae. 

 

There are more tigers in the USA as pets than there are existing in the wild in the world. Not talking zoo animals but as domestic pets. So... situation out there has become untenable and I understand them getting a bit weird about the rules because the rules are meant to have the big hammer to slam down on someone who is really burning the system.

 

The dealers who came to Miami and had their ivory destroyed... they are probably quite old businesses, know their ivory, are well aware of all the issues but just kept coming and kept doing it was because it was always ok as I said above. Then one day someone tipped off customs and customs nabbed them all. And they busted the stuff, didn't do any major harm to them as they could have, warned them, and then released them back into the wild squacking and whining and moaning. The effect is not that dealers will not come now.

 

If dealers make money at that show they will come. One year of perspective on what they did, they will just make sure not to import ivory and news stories went around and we are talking about it and it did exactly what they wanted: it raised a lot of awareness that it's severe. 

 

You can argue the merits of the ivory bans plus and minus. One can argue that these items will lose value because the markets will be disrupted and ultimately that's what's been concluded is necessary to stop the poaching. Nothing else has worked. People are buying the art objects constantly but don't care about the elephants. 

 

That means that a whole ton of Chinese artisans need ivory in order to make fake antique stuff to sell to all the people who want to buy it. That cannot be stopped. They can't patrol and stop the poaching. But they can disrupt the market enough that people will walk away from it. 

 

How could any of us prove that an ivory embellishment on a shirasaya was not from an elephant shot a few years ago? We can't. It's not like the Japanese exactly give a damn about what is destroyed for irreplaceable wildlife. Dolphins, whales, if it moves, then it's killable. 

 

I am not pro or con on this ban but I understand what they're trying to do. I am all for people's freedoms, I don't care who marries who or what anyone's gender or religion choices are. But if we lose genetic diversity in the wild because the Chinese are making ivory fakes that dummies over here buy thinking it's legit antiques (and they do: all those crap Japanese swords are being BOUGHT by someone otherwise the flood would stop, so no doubt they are carving away constantly new fake antiques and they're a lot better faking old Chinese stuff than old Japanese stuff). It's bad enough that they kill tigers to get the penis to use for traditional medicine cures for impotency when there is viagra there for the taking. 

 

Viagra has had the side effect of boosting tiger population a little bit. Bet they didn't realize that when they were making it. But maybe in two generations powdered tiger penis will be off the market. 

 

We are seeing only the immediate effect on how it affects us but the loss to the planet is staggering. They showed mercy to these dealers though those were the *exact* guys they should be nailing because they had no reason not to know and they are perpetuating market for ivory things and making ivory maintain its mystique. 

 

So, it's just something we have to do. It sucks in that for us the walls are constantly closing in especially when people want to say a $300,000 sword is a dangerous weapon. Yeah, to me because I'll catch it with my bare hands if I drop it for fear it will get scratched. But nobody else. But this one, I admit, they have to do something because nothing is working so far. 

 

We lost another Rhino species this year because of this s**t. West African Black Rhino, prized for its horn which is another TCM cure probably for impotency, went extinct in 2016. Poached to death.

 

I won't post the picture in here but this is a very graphic link of what it looks like when a poacher is done with one of these animals.

 

Rhino taken for its horn:

 

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/522920f8e4b04a6b0124d428/t/52dccfd1e4b076a2fa38d8b8/1390202837050/rhino-poaching.jpg

 

Elephant taken for its ivory:

 

https://eddykimani.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/47663_10151226716148161_476035665_n.jpg

 

So if you look at these a while, you may understand that this time is over for ivory. Because every scammer and every liar and every con artist that works his way through the collectible worlds has a very large monetary incentive to keep this going. So they are going to cut the money off, it's all they can do or else endure this.

 

Horn, we do need to know for sure what species are providing these. My understanding have been least threatened species and we're working with something equivalent to leather. But I don't know which species they come from as a fact. Anyone know?

[Kronos]

It's a rather extreme measure but nowhere near as extreme as the problem caused by poaching. At the end of the day while the laws could be improved substantially every other measure that's been taken is ineffective and biodiversity is one of the biggest problems of the 21st century. A good documentary where you can see the extent to which this is happening in china would be 'racing extinction'.

[nagamaki - Franco]

A shipment of elephant ivory was just seized going into Vietnam, 650 elephants had been poached for this stash. How does the world explain to its children that wild elephants went extinct on our watch, unforgivable. Two species of rhino already gone on our watch, unforgivable. The last known wild tiger was killed in China just a few years ago in the 1st month in the year of ....., you guessed it, the tiger. Wealthy businessmen in China raise smuggled tiger cubs that have been taken from their poached mother to adult only to be slaughtered, skinned alive for entertainment. And if one thinks, "well, it's not me because I don't buy ivory," think again. Why, because their are many dots that connect to these crazy things going on and it is our, all of us, responsibility to pay attention to what it is that we do. When people refuse to control themselves, then someone else is going to do it for them. Self regulation always seems to be a better alternative, the best solution.

[b.hennick]

At the auction at the Tampa show there was a full ivory tusk for sale with a reserve of $3000. No bidders. The same seller had many ivroy/horn pieces for sale (Knife making).  So it is close to home and not abstract.

[seattle1]

Hello:

 For sure poaching and the demand for ivory are an intertwined problem threatening the elephant, particularly in Africa. However we should not assume that an absolute ivory ban, hopefully restricted to contemporary ivory, is a sufficient solution to species threat. Human population in Africa is projected to grow very rapidly over the next few decades, faster than anywhere else on earth, and the elephant is a food competitor for man in the African agricultural environment in that a mature elephant must consume prodigious amounts of vegetation every day of their long lives.  When man and animal come into completion for food and growing space, the loser is inevitably the wild animal, and the fact that it carries ivory is beside the point. In US terms the Fish and Wildlife folk repeatedly try to reintroduce the wolf into areas of their former habitat, and when the odd sheep or lamb provides a meal for the wolf the rancher protest are loud and clear and local politicians and state officials who get the word know what they have to do for the wolf gets no vote.

 Arnold F.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello Arnold,

 

Agree, an absolute ban on ivory is not the answer or solution to insatiable human greed, sadly. If memory serves, I believe it was Plato or Socrates that said, paraphrasing, 'those who are not content with what they have, shall never be satisfied with what they want to have.'