paulb

James You are right, Many laws are unpopular (I rmember working hard with colleagues from the Northern Token fighting and getting the sword ban legislation diluted. It was a stupid law and needed modification. What we got was the best compromise we could achieve at the time) and some unworkable. Ufortunately no one has found a better way and until they do we're stuck with it and the only weapon we have agianst unjust or stupid laws are the balot. The fact we have a criminal justice systemis an excuse to feel free to try it and disregard the law. I am talking about the individuals decision to do what is right or wrong. The legal system is there for those who take the wrong decision. Have I broken laws? Yes for sure. I do 30,000 miles a year on our roads and have my share of speeding points. The motivation in these cases was lack of attention or ignorance rather than a delibrate flouting of the law However in the case of misreprestation in customs declarations while I accept some may be driven by some sense of injustice in the majority of cases I would suggest it is simply wanting to avoid paying what is due. There seems to be a belief that effectively robbing the revenue isnt real theft. That is not the case and no argument about making a stance against stupid or unjust laws alters that fact. I am conscious that this thread is rapidly going off track from the original intent. So perhaps it is time to draw a line under this subject. Ultimately we can all make our own decisions and live with whatever the consequences of thos might be. I doubt we will ever reach agreement on all aspects,

At the risk of sounding Sanctimonious in a modern democracy conforming to a law should not depend on it's enforceability. Laws are created and passed in to law by a government elected by the majority of citizens and in their name. They are there generally because they reflect the moral valuesor at least the wishes of the population. Therefore they should be adhered to, not for fear of being caught, but because obeying the law is the right thing to do. I fail to understand how people spend considerable sums on an item and then are prepared to risk a criminal record and worse by not paying duty/VAT. which amounts to a % of what they have already spent. Admittedly in the UK this is only 5% on swords so not so great an amount, but some still appear to try and avoid it effectively committing fraud on route and risking a criminal record.

Sorry I am coming to this discussion late and in my haste to catch up may have miissed something. A point that no one appears to have mentioned is the incredible amount of information in Markus Sesko's publications on kantei. These come directly from the NBTHK monthly magazines between 2005-2012 (doing that from memory so may be a year or two out). They offer an excellent source of information on many, many smiths. True it is missing some of the detail articles you can see in the monthly publications, which is unfortunate, but they do offer an extremely valuable reference. The fact the NBTHK has been prepared to let Markus do this suggests that their concerns regarding copy right of other contributors work, be they correct or otherwise, are sincere. If you consider that at the moment the only way people appear to be able to communicate with the NBTHK in Japan is via fax I guess we shouldnt be surprised at their reluctance to embrace more up to date technology. We can hope that when they relocate to new premises that may awaken a new perspective on how they communicate with their membership. Also the more non-Japanese members there are must eventually influence their approach to sharing information to a wider audience. Living in hope Paul.

Hi Ken Blade looks ok but not like the Yoshimitsu I have seen (which admittedly are very few) and the mei is also not typical. The ones I have seen that have been authenticated were priced in excess of $50K and some a whole lot more. If there was any liklihood of being by the Awataguchi smith surely the seller would have had it looked at and papered rather than selling it at such a very low price. Might well be A yoshimitsu and of period just not THE Yoshimitsu (probably the greates exponent of tanto there has ever been)

One can always dream

First impression Chinese attempted copy from the 1950s or 60s but could be newer than that. Sorry

Andi Are you sure this was a tanto? cross section is shinogi zukuri whereas for a tanto hirazukuri would be much more likely. Also tanto construction ,especially on older work, was more often single piece. Regards Paul

I am not a dealer but have sold a good number of swords in recent years (maybe that makes me a sort of dealer) for friends. We can all spend a lot of time arguing whether something is a good buy, over priced or whatever, but the fact is there are no price lists in this field. The ultimate decision as to whether something is worth what is being asked is if someone buys it. The buyer must therefore be convinced what he (or she) was buying was at an acceptable price and good value If it remains unsold it would be reasonable to assume the seller was being over optimnistic with their pricing. As always something is only worth what a buyer is.willing to pay.

I am a great lover of Shikkake and have seen a number of Shikkake blades recently. some (including the one Marius had on sale at such a low price) I thought were beautiful swords others not particularly exciting. The Juyo recently posted on Aoi site I feel is less attractive than others I have seen. This may be the result of the photography (but usually it is good on Aoi's site) or it just isnt as good a blade as others I have seen. It demonstrates I think the range of quality one can witness in any school and confirms that each sword needs to be judged for what it is not for which period or school it belongs to.

While at the DTI in October a tall gentleman approached me and introduced himself. It was Veli. We had a brief and friendly discussion and confirmed that this year we would really get together either when I was next in Finland or he in the UK. I have had regular contact with Veli more or less since he appeared on the board. The speed with which he picked up information, learned kanji and the pure energy he brought to the subject were always a cause of admiration. I greatly regret having failed to make the time to meet up as planned, there was always something that got in the way and I thought there would always be another opportunity. Veli was one of lifes gentlemen and encompassed all of the poitive aspects of this subject he was studious thorough and always willing to help. In all a great example to the rest of us. I will miss his presence here greatly and wish him peace where he is now and deepest sympathy to his family and friends.

Hi Day to day my blades are stored horizontally edge up in fitted drawers. When I am away I store them in a gun safe. They are stored virtically, kissaki up. to date I have had no issues. However I do not keep swords in oil. After doing so for many years I felt that I was more likely to do dmage removing oil than I was storing them in a centrally heated house in the north of the UK. So far this has not caused me any problem.

As always it depends what you are looking for and what it costs. I understand John's concerns but dont feel quite so negatively towards it. 1. at 5mm it is fairly thin so may have been heavily polished. This may be a concern as to bring out the detail it definitely needs to be polished and there already appears to be core steel showing in a small area. 2. The kissaki may have been repaired/reshaped at some point, this is not unusual. The boshi is there, visible, although a little thin, and complete 3. The hamon is very busy, the lack of activity John mentions may be due to the condition of the current polish but I cant tell from the images. Basically it is a fairly standard wakazashi in average condition. I think the 14/15th century dating is a bit optimistic and would place it 16th or 17th. As said above it depends what you are looking for. I would agree with John before committing take a look at what is for sale on the board and see how it compares value wise Good luck Paul

Hi Jean, I saw this this morning and my first thought before reading anything was Hosho. Increasingly as we look at blades from within the 5 Yamato traditions it becomes apparent that differences are extremely subtle, especially in later work. However Hosho should be the least confused as its predominent masame is unique to that school. I think this is where we could really benefit from more information from the NBTHK. saying something is x or y is not really enough it is equally mportant to understand why it has been given an attribution to one school over another. I am guessing that the volume of swords they see prohibit them from doing this but perhapes the person submitting the sword should try asking questions rather than just accepting the conclusion. Regarding the sword on Aoi's site, which I think is stunning, looking at the image the masame in the lower half appears to become ko-itame as you move towards the kissaki. I wonder if the Tegai attribution is because of this combination. With Hosho wouldnt you expect a more pure masame? I also think Tegai, as the most prolific Yamato group becomes the safety net for swords that dont quite fit in to the other 4 schools. Thanks for posting. regardless of who made it it is a good looking thing and one I would enjoy holding in my collection for a while (like about half a dozen others I am lusting after but cant afford:-)) regards Paul

Hi Martin I think this is a demon rather than Shishi. Doesnt help with what's on top of him but if you look for images of demons you might find your answer. regards Paul

Matt While I agree with others here that the signature is unlikley to be correct please dont been in too much of a hurry to have it removed. You need to get more opinions from people seeing the sword in hand, preferably at a shinsa (or even two) before undertaking any irreversible action. I realise this adds expense but imagine how you would feel if having had the mei removed it then papered to the named smith. (not to mention the considerable drop in value)

Peter thank you for posting this it is fascinating reading on several levels. Not least looking at the prices discussed in 1964. On a more personal level there is a reference in there to a meeting between Dr. Homma and Col Hartley where Dr. Homma mentioned he was about to publish a Hizen Taikan. This he did. Earlier this year I bought a copy from Grey. What added value for me was it was a copy orignally presented to Dean Hartley in 1985 by the NBTHK. It somehow completed the circle and put me on touch with someone I wish I had had the opportunity to know personally rather than just by reputation. thank you for the link

Michael A friend of mine bought a sword at the DTI and has received it this week via EMS/parcelforce without problem. It took a little longer to clear customs than with FeDex of old but otherwise had no issues. As always the key is supplying the right information and a lot of it regarding proof of antiquity tarrif codes etc. Regards Paul

Brian Congratulations on your transaction. The experience you describe is one shared by many of us who have bought swords from Darcy and Ted. I have never been dissappointed or had anything other than a very postive experience. Whatever it is you have bought I am sure will delight you enjoy!

Ian I dont disagree with anything you have said in your last mail. One thing that is fundemental to here or any other such activity is that people should be treated with respect. So should swords. My first sword was even less impressive than the one you describe. it was a showa-to which I cherished for many years as I developed an understanding. That deeper understanding was greatly added to by you and other members of the Northern Token society. where we do differ a little is that I really do believe you learn far more by looking at good quality swords, features I have struggled to see for years in less good work are blatantly obvious in good swords. Yes I agree they are difficulty to find and see (BTW whenit comes to living in the sticks I think I am even more remote than you are!) Because of this it is worth trying to encourage people to look at the best they can when they can. You mention that people posting poor swords, or what are perceived as poor swords are ignored, I agree this is wrong and everyone starting out should be encouraged, I was, and I hope I do the same to anyone who asks me. But it is equally wrong to assume anyone who only buys expensive swords from reputable dealers are not as committed or knowledable as you believe treasure hunters to be. It is not the case and in its way is as damaging as marginalising those who are just beginning. Neither position is valid or helpful. Over the past 40 years you have arguably done more than anyone else in the UK to encourage beginners (including me) and that contribution is immeasurable. We need to ensure that work is continued and that learning is based on a solid foundation utilising the far greater level of information and greater number of swords avaialble for study.

The title of this post asked how we can attract new collectors. Some of the responses may unintentionally have the opposite effect. The ongoing references to financial elitism, beginners not being able to enter the market because of high prices and the true skill of finding the treasure amongst the dross may suggest the hobby isn't worth the time and effort. There is another perspective. The market in this area like almost all others has always been like this. I don’t have the same length of service as Ian but when I started in the 1980's I had to save for a year to reach the £200 I needed to buy a gunto or use to part exchange with Bill Tagg for something a little better than I had. At that time established collectors were spending many thousands (often more than today) on top end swords. This is as it has always been. When taking part in this subject you make choices. I have friends who have a large number of swords of medium quality and are happy to accumulate volume. Others distil their collections in to a few better pieces. To do this is not financial elitism it is making a choice based on a great deal of study and hard work. Neither of these is right or wrong. What is wrong is having decided which way to go to then attack or criticise those who have chosen to take a different path. What has changed is the amount of information available and the range of swords for sale. This enables the beginner to see quality that neither Ian nor I could have dreamed of when we began. This undoubtedly creates frustration as it is too easy to see what you can’t yet afford. It has been suggested that those who buy high end papered blades do not do so based on study and research. I am sure this is true in some cases but the vast majority of collectors in this section I have met are very serious students who know far more about the subject than I ever will. They are also willing and keen to pass on their experience. The success of the hobby requires both ends of the spectrum. There is a great deal to be gained in this subject, not necessarily financial but much much more. The first step is always the hardest, making a start and feeling that what you want is unattainable. The only truth in that is that it is unattainable if you never start. Instead of bemoaning the current market the high (or low) prices and the fact that the best swords are bought by people with money but no knowledge we need to encourage and help much as Barry is doing with the Canadian Society. There is a great deal of experience and knowledge out there and as one very dear old friend used to say it is a total waste of time to accumulate knowledge and experience if it is not shared.

I have been involved with a number of events in the UK.When originally suggested each was met with great enthusiasm with initial commitments to attend. As they came closer and people realised there was a cost involved (usually held at the abosolute minimum to cover costs) the numbers dwindled. As a result organisers spent a great deal of time and effort chasing people seeking additional attendees and getting people to pay (in one case I am still waiting for payment 3 years after the event) the vast majority, if not all, that attended these events enjoyed them and gave positive input. They also asked when we would repeat the exercise. The point I am trying to make (in I hope not too a long winded way for fear of upsetting Alan) is that if people want to encourage new collectors they need to be prepared to play a pro-active part when the opportunity to meet is presented. It is too easy to stand on the sidelines and make cynical comments but if we want to increase interest we have to make the effort and also support those that do. It is intertesting that some of those that decry the lack of new collectors and opportunities to sell their swords areoften the same people who stand to the side and fail to support any intiative to raise the profile of the subject.

I have read with great interest the analysis of current markets, collecting, exchange rates, profit and demographics (sorry if I missed a topic). As one of the groups Darcy so eloquently describes I thought I would add a personal perspective. It isn’t right or wrong or better than any other it’s just where I have ended up. To my surprise recently I have realised that I am now one of the “older collectors” approaching retirement in the next few years. As I have said before I think I have reached the pinnacle of my own collecting capability and although I have seen many swords recently at the DTI and on various sites that I would still love to include in my diminished collection I can’t. Nor is it likely in retirement I ever will, So my opinions below are not based on any ambition to improve on what I have, to acquire great treasure or make a lot of money. When embarking on this or any other interest that involves high expenditure you need to try and understand your motivation. Are you doing it because you are interested in the subject, enjoy researching and studying appreciate the aesthetics of the item concerned? Or are you hoping to use the acquisition of these pieces as a route to investment? Put simply is your motivation appreciation and interest or profit? ( it is of course possible to have both, but that can create many complications and great internal conflict) I started collecting because I was fascinated by the structure, history and shape of the Japanese sword. It is unquestionably one of the finest hand weapons ever produced. Had I been interested only in profit I would doubtless have focussed on more commercial areas than I have. I have only ever bought swords that I liked and with one or two minor exceptions always from reputable dealers at market price. As a result I have bought fewer than I otherwise might but am confident that what I have is what it claims to be. I did not buy these in hope of making profit when I sell. I would be dishonest if I said I didn’t care, of course I do, but it wasn’t the prime motivation. Nor should it be. Prices in any field of collecting fluctuate dramatically and as Darcy describes there are so many factors that can affect price. So it is possible, actually very likely, that at the point I come to sell my swords I will not make a profit, or even recover my investment to date. But I will get something back for them. In the meantime I have had immeasurable enjoyment from them, made numerous friends and shared great experiences for now more than 30 years. Therefore If I do not recover my costs the difference should be considered the fees for participating in a totally absorbing interest and hobby. I think on balance I will find that I obtained incredible value for money. We can spend many hours, sleepless nights and give ourselves a great deal of heartache. But the bottom line in this is as quoted above from Darcy’s post “collect what you like” And appreciate the fact that you are able to enjoy a piece of history and art without parallel.

I agree with Peter there seem few other options at present. I spoke this morning with FeDex to see if I could clarify the situation. Basically they said they cannot ship weapons (guns, swords et al) even with suitable paperwork showing the item to be antique, on their standard services. They suggested it might be possible with their heavy freight dept but that may require additional licencing, permits etc. All in all it is becoming increasingly difficult to send legitimate items around the world and in the case of the UK internally. The last one I had was the post offcie refusing to ship a pc to germany for repair because it contained a battery. I amnot sure where this will end up but if the restrictions in Japan continue it will have amajor impact on their international sales.

James I think you are confusing Christies with Sothebys who did indeed drop from Japanese and indeed other arms and armour a few years ago. Chrisities have continued to hold Japanese art sales twice a year although from a different salesroom in the UK

Can I place a vote for the black lacquer option? I think with a blade of such quality, and they dont get any better than Yoshimitsu, I would be concerned about overwhelming the quiet beauty of such a work with excessive bling. Nothing at all wrong with the examples posted but the blade desrves the right to be appreciated in all of its quiet elegance without being overpowered by its surroundings. to be honest for me a good shirasaya and habaki would be enough (BTW my dress sense is equally unimaginative so overall my opinion is probably of little value!)