paulb

Steve I can go along with Shinto, doubtful about Hizen based on shape rather than anything else. I would normally expect Hizen blades to have an elegant sugata, yours looks a bit chunky, even allowing for the fact that it is suriage, which looks to have been done rather crudely. For no other reason than to eliminate them from your appraisal take a look at Owari and then some more provincial schools as possibles. Again in it's current condition tying this down will be very difficult.

thank you yes I would go for Shin-shinto or even a little later. It is a good looking piece of work regards Paul

Hi Diego Yes your photos of the hada and hamon are fine. I think one of the nakago would help. The picture of the sugata it looks over exposed so you cant get any idea of colour or detail of the nakago. As you say if it is thick and heavy I would also think Shin-Shinto most likely but lets see more of the nakago before jumping to a conclusion. Also when you measure it please guive an idea of the thickness Best Regards Paul

Diego without dimensions and better images I think it is virtually impossible to say. based on what you have shown it looks lokely to be shin-shinto but could also be mid to late shinto in good condition. The hada and hamon look promising. My first thought was possibly Hizen but the nakago doesnt look right for the mainline group.

whole on the subject i have been have a long running correspondence (mainly one way, i.e. from me) with FeDex. At present I see little or no liklihood of them changing policy particularly as they actually dont seem to care very much. I havent given up and will keep you posted but as of now I think Parcelforce is the only realistic option.

From what can be seen in the images the horimono is not very good quality and possibly (probably) added later. Such additions can detract from the value as in all things it depends on the original quality of the sword, the quality of the carving also the reason for having the horimono applied.

Hi Dick It's an interesting looking piece and datewise you may well be right. From your images and description there is nothing that I can see that would point directly towards Shikkake. I am not saying you are wrong and you have examined the sword in hand while I am looking at images. Although you describe some features in the hamon which you might expect in this school I cant see any, and you dont mention any, of the more typical Shikkake characterisitcs such as sunagashi in the hamon, Shikkake hada is normally a combination of itame and nagare with masame hada running close to and through the hamon. It does not usually include mokume to any great extent.. Why do you think this is a possibilty? Having spent a lot of time recently preparing a presentation on Yamato work I was struck at how difficult it was to differentiate between Yamato schools, especially as you get in to the later work, they all seem to merge charactersitics. If this is Muromachi it would be later Shikkake when many of the distinctive Norinaga features were already dissapearing. If you pm me with an email address i will forward some images of Shikkake hada I have (too big for posting here) which might help you assessment. Best Regards Paul

Dear Axel The NBTHK certainly went through a serious bad time in the late seventies/early eighties which did them considerable damage and has resulted in older papers, particuarly those issued by branch offices, being questioned. I think every one of the main organisations have had issues they would rather forget in the past which seem to be brought up in arguments about who or what is best. The reality is these organisations survive because there is a demand for them. There is a demand because people believe in them. Which is best, better or otherwise is as subjective as which swords you like or dont. At the moment one seems to be more popular than others, in10 years time that might be different. One thing is for sure all of them know a hell of a lot me than I do and I take their opinions very seriously.

Peter I dont think anyone would or is questioning the ability of members of any of the groups and certainly Miyano sans skill is well known and recorded. In terms of accurracy I have no direct experience with the NTHK NPO and as I have said before there are many contributing reasons why some apparently strange results occur at the overseas events (maybe they do in Japan as well, I dont know). However from a commercial point of view which was one of the points that cropped up earlier I think there is no doubt that the NBTHK are taken more seriously. At the DTI there were a great number of papered swords these were almost exclusively from the NBTHK (I say almost because I didnt see every sword but I also didnt see evidence of any other papers either) Likewise a number of auction houses appear to have taken a postion of only noting NBTHK papers and no other current bodies. This is not a reflection on the abilities of anyone it is just the way the current market is and I think explains why the NBTHK are taking so much longer to paper pieces. The volume has gone up vastly in recent years.

I am sorry I am probably letting my own prejudices loose here. I have been involved with two local shinsa's in the UK have been a member of the NTHK in the past and am a member of the NBTHK. I value papers from both bodies, however I put a much higher level of faith in the NBTHK system and papers than others. As Jean says the quality of experts that have driven the NBTHK is exceptional and I think they enjoy the benefit of these gentlemen's previous experience.

I havent looked it up but from memory blue papers appeared fairly late on the scene, not long before they moved to the present system in the 1980's. Does anyone know whether they actually existed in 1972?

Last year I know some people were quoting a backlog of 2 or 3 months from Hozon submission before a sword was looked at. Papers took several months after that to be sent (I think this has always been the case) As Nick said the numbers of swords being submitted at all levels of papering has risen dramatically in recent years. This has resulted in dleays between submission and result Regards Paul

Thanks Ted this is an interesting development. keep us posted Best Regards Paul

Reusing blades is classic recycling. in some cases it enabled someone to preserve at least part of a blade that was important to them. Remember that making swords has always been an expensive process so to be able to re-use part of an otherwise destroyed blade makes good economic sense and enables someone to sell to a lower level of clientelle. Once again regarding this blade 1. It is an authentic blade at least 150 and possibly more years old 2. The nakago looks to be newer work suggesting it has been reformed. I dont think this has been done recently i.e. within the last 50 or 60 years. 3. The mei is poor quality and I think gimei. May have been added when the blade was shortened or some time after to attempt to add value. 4. The koshirae are also lowish quality. Overall the package has been put together for someone of limited means or possibly for export. All things Japanese were hugely popular in Europe and the USA in the last quarter of the 19th century and all and every art form was exported and purchased with enthusiasm. This may well have been assembled as a tourist piece at that time. I dont thinkthere is anything else I can add and furthr speculation would be just that and not add anyhting definitve to what has already been said by Grey,Jean et al.

Fleck I am sorry I seem to keep coming in like the negative old **** and attempt to dampen your enthusiasm but in reality the mei on the Yamato blade does not look a lot like yours. They are the same kanji, yes but there the similarity ends. Yours is much more crudely inscribed and the end result lacks quality. The reason that old two characters appear could be because whoever did it was trying (or appearing to try) to record who the blade was signed by before it was shortened (unlikely) or they just wanted to put a good name on an unsigned work. Unfortunately I doubt we will ever know. I have a basic rule when trying to assess swords, the more complicated the story I have to construct to explain what I am looking at the less likely it is to be true. Regards Paul

Fleck Part of the problem in helping is you are looking for definitve answers and regretably I dont think they can be given. What can be said is the following: 1. The condition of the blade prevents a great deal of assessment as to what it is. To make such a judgement you need to see the hada (weld pattern of the steel) and the hamon (hardened edge) Neither of these are visible in your images. So you are left with the shape. One way to tell how much a blade is polished down is to look down on it along the top edge. look at the difference in thickness between the nakago and the blade. The condition of the nakago makes it appear to be late, i.e shinshinto. If there is evidence of heavy polishing i.e. the blade is greatly thinner than the nakago it means either it has been hugely abused in a short life, or it is the top end of something else with a nakago reformed and mei added. 2. Many more wakazashi than long swords exist. This is because only Samurai were allowed to carry long swords but merchants et al could carry wakazashi. They were made in great quantity in the Edo period with the top work being lavishly fitted with very high quality fittings. These were purchased not only by high ranking Samurai but also wealthy merchants. (Remember much of the national wealth was held by the merchant class, while samurai were often impoverished.) 3. You own sword looks like a run of the mill work with lower end quality fittings. Just looking at it statistically it is more likely to have been carried by a merchant than a samurai. The fittings would suggest they were not at the top end of their profession. 4. Daisho come in all lengths and some have tanto rather than wakazashi and some have much longer secondary blades, it was just down to the preferance of the samurai carrying them (provided they remained withn the laws governing maximum length) I think it very unlikely that your sword was ever part of a daisho. Sorry if the above sounds negative. It isnt meant to. What you have is an authentic Japanese blade which is at least 150 years old and may be a lot more. It isnt a national treasure, but equally it is not a Chinese fake which often appear here as peoples first buys. So well done on that score. I am sure many others will have already suggested this but if you are keen to understand the subject more can I suggest your next investment should be in one or some of the very good books recommended on various posts on this site. They will help you understand what you are looking at and where they fit in the overall scheme of things. regards Paul

Fleck Sunobi tanto/ko-wakazashi tend to appear interchangeably. one describes a small wakazashi the other an oversized tanto. Machi Okuri means the border between blade and nakago (tang) has been moved forward towards the point. If your blade had been greatly shortened then the original signature would have been removed as blades are shortened from the nakago. If it has been greatly shortened then the mei would be a later addition, either attempting to record the original smith or more likely just purtting a well known name on a fairly ordinary blade. regards Paul

Henry Congratulations if this is your first purchase you have done far better than many of us did in the past. You have purchased a sword in good polish with all detail visible from a well known and generally respected dealer. I certainly cant add much to his description, it looks to be exactly what he describes it as. The koshirae look to be fairly late (opinion based on feeling rather than anything else) but again reasonable quality. The hakikaki boshi as seen in the oshigata is particularly nice to see.This in combination with the gunome hamon may be an attempt to simulate late Yamato or early Mino work. Well done. Regards Paul

As said by others this has been much debated before and in the past caused equally passionate opinion without reaching a definitive conclusion. I think to do so would be virtually impossible. What is, I think, beyond question is that the responsibilty for care lies with the current custodian so whichever path you choose to follow you must be prepared to accept the consequences. One would always hope to never degrade something in your care through neglect or missuse but it is impossible to police, dictate and instruct. One can only advise. I believe that I take good care of the swords I have (probably so does everyone else). I stopped keeping them in oil about 12 years ago. Although I live in a very wet part of the UK the swords are in a centrally heated house that does not suffer dramatic temperature or humidity changes. I took this decision because. despite my almost OCD approach to handling them I could see that I had in the past caused some damage through the use of uchiko to remove oil. I therefore reasoned that the risk of the blade rusting was lower than the liklihood of a numpty like me oiling and removing the oil regularly. I have read with interest comments regading micro fibre cloth and I have some from Japan which I use very little. My preference has been to use super soft paper tissues (non impregnated with anything) to wipe over blades after looking at them. I also make it a firm rule not to talk over blades when looking at them with others. Obviously it is up to each of us to decide how to care for swords in our care. What I do suits me and seems to work and I know that since doing it this way I have had no adverse experience. When I used uchiko (and it was doubtless all down to me) I know that I have in the past marked a blade and since that time promised myself I wouldn't use it again. Arguments about using it on swords that are out of polish are probably valid as it offers a very gentle abbrasive which might bring detail out to a degree. I dont think there is justification to use uchiko on a new polish. I saw in Japan last year at least two shop owners beating hell out of blades with an uchko ball so the prractice still seems prevelent there.

We seem to have gone round the houses a bit on this. To try and come back to the sword concerned I would suggest the following: 1. There are examples of larger wakazashi (which in the absence of any measurements I am assuming this is) being signed tachi mei as there are katana being signed katana mei by Hizen smiths. As always there are exceptions and although it is always safer if a blade conforms to the norm you cant dismiss it because it doesnt. 2. I cannot see the kanji in enough detail to comment on whether I think it looks right and unless it is glaringly obvious I am not qualified to identify the differences of faked mei. What I can see the wara character looks ok the first second and last are questionable. 3 I agree with John that the mei looks contemporary to the nakago and this is a concern as for a Hizen Tadahiro blade you would expect it to be in much better condition and the mei more clearly visible. While I think it is of period it looks to have had a very hard life. 4. I also think this is born out in the jigane. The areas of o-hada may well be the result of multiple polishing showing core steel. Hizen blades are notoriously thin skinned. So the combination of the nakago and jigane suggest that if this is shinto it has had a hard life 5. The shape and the hamon both look good and in proportion. The overall look of the sword does to me have the "just right" look of a mainline hizen work. So overall conclusion (which based on John's earlier comments, is worth exactly what it has cost, i.e nothing) I would not dismiss this as being gimei I cant see enough to do so. there are indicators that suggest it could be right but if it is it is not in the best state of preservation.

Hi John The only school I know of that had a specific way of writing the kuni character was the Enju school, where a number of their group used a unique symbol, it looks a little like the number 3, (I am sure there is a more technically correct term) within the kuni box which was specific to them. With other schools it is sometimes possible to differentiate between generations using variations within the Kuni character. If there are any other school specific examples I am not aware of them but dont doubt others may know more.

Hi Mariusz no it isnt although the school has some tegai links (amongst others) it is a tokubetsu Hozon papered Enju blade. General opinion is that it stands very well against Rai Kunimitsu. I think it papered to Enju instead of Rai because it has an O-maru boshi and shirrake rather than nie utsuri. It is possible the best 18" of Enju steel I have ever seen. I have bought it twice, so it must have something going for it

not only for beignners. Some of my favourite blades have been (and still are ) wakazashi

Hi John I can appreciate you feel a little disillusioned with the subject at present having lost money through buying and selling on. I think this is in part due to relatively short time you have been buying and selling over. The good news is that after only 5 years you have, in your words, "the swords you want" and that you will continue to enjoy them. For what it is worth it took me more than 30 years to reach that point (if I have, but not sure). To get there I have bought, held and sold a lot of swords. Did I make profit on those I moved on? some yes but the majority no. Overall when I last looked I had just about broken even in the total number of deals done. Which as a collector not a dealer was great for me. This is an interest/hobby. If and when I eventually sell off everything I have I manage to break even I would be delighted. If I made a modest loss it shoudlnt matter too much. I have enjoyed half a lifetime of a totally enthralling pastime/obsession which as I have said in many other posts has offered immeasurable benefits, friendships and contacts. Any loss I make I would hope I would regard as the fees for participating. There is nothing else I have done that I have enjoyed so much, taken up so much time, and actually cost me so little. The real key factor here is to decide what you are looking to get out of the subject. We are told time and again do not regard buying swords (or any other antique or art) as an investment, there are numerous people regretting buying Geortgian furniture or Beswick china etc having learned values can decrease as well as increase. Buy not as an investment but to enjoy. When you come to sell it on the fact you recover the majority of your money is a benefit, if you make a profit its a bonus. Sorry dont mean to preach but I think you are being a bit unfair on yourself and the sword world. You have done well to get where you are and should celbrate the fact rather than be unhappy that getting there hasnt generated substantial (or any) profit. The profit hopefully has been the pleasure the journey and ongoing study will give you. Regards Paul

I also bought a number of books from Craig. He was always very helpful and easy to deal with. My condolences to his family and friends