Translation help needed please

[BOB A CLARK]

this is A navy sword that I'm keeping for my collection. can some one help me with the name of the sword smith please. also has anyone ever seen a second hole like this one?

[BOB A CLARK]

[BOB A CLARK]

[BOB A CLARK]

I' A NEW GUY TRYING TO LEARN . THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP THAT I CAN GET.

[Thekirsh]

Hi Bob,

 

My best shot at a translation is "Kobi Kunimichi"

 

The sword has a seki stamp also and the two holes just mean that the sword has been mounted twice.eg two different handles.

 

Cheers Simon

[Toryu2020]

My guess would be Omura Masamichi...

-t

[Nobody]

I did not think that the reading for the mei was a difficult case.

 

小林国道 – Kobayashi Kunimichi

[george trotter]

Hi Bob,

as you are new to collecting Japanese Swords, you need to know the following. You have the little square "Seki" stamp on the tang which indicates that this is a WWII semi traditionally made/water or oil tempered blade commonly called Showato or Gunto (military sword). Kobayashi Kunimichi worked along with about 300-400 other sword makers in Seki from 26th Oct 1939 to the end of the war. Without seeing the blade details we can only assume this is a gunto (because of the stamp and what we know of this maker).

As to the two holes...as Simon said, it usually means the sword has been re-hilted at some time and the new hole had to be drilled to accommodate the peg passing through a different spaced binding on the new handle. I would say however, that in the case of WWII blades which had a working life of perhaps 10 years at most, it is equally possible that the first hole was drilled when it was made...but, when it arrived at the "fitting/mounting" factory, it was found to be too "out of position" and a new hole was drilled for its mounting, before it was issued. It is found surprisingly often....it is most common on old traditional swords from re-mounting of course, but I would say rare on WWII vintage blades due to remounting...more likely from mis-placing of the first hole by the maker. Just an opinion. It is very rare to see a modern gunto with a plugged hole however...first I can remember seeing.

Regards,

George.

[Stephen]

id like to see full shots of the nakago, is there three holes or just two? top one half pluged?

[BOB A CLARK]

FIRST I WOULD LIKE TO THANK EVERY ONE FOR THERE HELP. (THANK YOU)

NOW LETS SEE IF I UNDERSTAND WHAT I WAS TOLD. IT WAS MADE AT THE SEKI ARSENAL FROM AROUND 1939 TO THE END OF THE WAR. THE SWORD SMITH WAS KOBAYASHI KUNIMICHI . HE IS AN AVERAGE SMITH THAT WORK AT THE SEKI ARSENAL WITH 300 TO 400 OTHER SMITH. I WILL TRY TO GET SOME MORE PICTURES UP TODAY OF THE BLADE AND YES THERES ONLY 2 HOLES. THANKS AGAIN BOB

[george trotter]

Hi Bob,

You have it right...but just on the point of the "Seki arsenal"...there was no such thing. In Seki (up behind Nagoya) there were many small swordmaking companies...some had maybe 80 employees and some only a few. They made the swords on contract to the government. Some smiths signed their own work and some companies had a Na kiri shi (name cutting person) who did the names. I think they had the peg hole put in when made. After 1940 all modern swords had to have a stamp on them...sometimes like the one you have and sometimes a cherry blossom. Many swords were delivered to centralised depots where they were polished and mounted for army or navy issue. If the peg hole didn't line up with the hilt, a new hole was made (like yours). Between 1939-1945 aroumd 300-400 makers were registered in the Seki town/region as making these contract swords...Your guy was one of these smiths...so there was not an "arsenal" as such. Some smiths were properly trained and could make "traditional" handmade swords as well as these Showato and Gunto.

Regards,

George.

.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

After 1940 all modern swords had to have a stamp on them...

 

No, only those which are not made with tamahagane. This rule was decided in 1937 but fully implemented in 1940. Blades made before 1940 without stamp can be non tamahagane made, Since 1940 all blades bearing a stamp (star stamp included) are not made with tamahagane.

[Rich S]

Hi,

 

After 1940 all modern swords had to have a stamp on them...

 

No, only those which are not made with tamahagane. This rule was decided in 1937 but fully implemented in 1940. Blades made before 1940 without stamp can be non tamahagane made, Since 1940 all blades bearing a stamp (star stamp included) are not made with tamahagane.

 

If star stamped blades are not true gendaito/nihonto, then why are both the NBTHK and NTHK papering them?

 

Rich S

[pcfarrar]

If star stamped blades are not true gendaito/nihonto, then why are both the NBTHK and NTHK papering them?

 

An NTHK judge at the UK shinsa said that the presence of a star stamp is no guarantee that a sword is made from tamahagane or indeed handmade. Quite a few star stamped swords failed to pass at the shinsa.

[BOB A CLARK]

OK I GOT IT NOW ABOUT THE ARSENAL THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP.

I THINK THE BLADE IS OIL TEMPER I TOOK SOME SHOTS OF THE SCRUBBED AND TRIED TO GET THE TEMPER LINE IN THERE TO.YOU GUYS LOST ME TALKING ABOUT THE (TAMAHAGANE ) WHAT DOES THAT MEAN ? ALSO IS THERE ANY WAY TO GET THOSE SPOTS OF THE BLADE?

AGAIN THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP

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[John A Stuart]

Hi Bob, Tamagahane (jewel steel) is the best steel obtained from a traditional tatara (bloomery furnace). BTW, could you not use all capitals when you post? It is very loud in a visual sense. John

[Rich S]

Peter -

 

Some may have failed shinsa (star stamped blades that is), but many have also been passed. So I guess we can't guarantee anything, but also can't say as an absolute that all stamped (including star stamped) blades aren't gendaito/nihonto.

 

As sensei said, there are no chicken straps in the world of nihonto :-)

 

Rich S

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

From Modern Japanese swords and swordsmiths by Leon and HiIroko kapp and Yoshindo Yoshihara.

[george trotter]

I suppose this comes down to never say never. It is clearly understood from reports that Rikugun Jumei Tosho (star stamp smiths) were officially issued with tamahagane to make swords for the army. These were stamped with the star. The implication is that star = tamahagane/traditional gendaito. I have owned star stamp swords by Muto Hidehiro and Nagao Kunishiro and closely comparing them with Endo Mitsuoki, Okishiba Heianjo Yoshisada and Yamagami Munetoshi blades (no stamps but definitely gendaito), I could tell no difference...all had clear hada, nie or ko-nie workmanship... according to Japanese sources even the most experienced of appraisers/collectors couldn't tell the difference between tamahagane kitae and other steels in a finished blade, and in addition, if the blade nakago was "aged" and gimei added, couldn't tell the difference between gendaito and shinto...that's what led them to begin the stamp system. My understanding is that it referred to the "Sho" and "Seki" stamp only, as it referred to those makers contracted to the Interior Ministry, but other individuals and groups such as the Rikugun Jumei Tosho, the Yasukuni Tosho, the Minatogawa Jinja Tosho and Ritsumeikan Tosho? , set up with directorship by the Army and Navy, did not have to do so...otherwise, these too would have a stamp of some kind, which, as we know, only the Rikugun Tosho swords had a star. Whereas it is well known that the Seki Swordmakers Association put the Seki/Sho stamp on their products themselves, to comply with the law and as an indication of quality before they were delivered...there is circumstantial evidence that the "contract" numbers with kana, and thus, probably the star stamp, may have been put on by the Army itself upon receipt of the finished tamahagane made sword, ie, it is an Army accounting system thing ( I say this because in Slough p. 117 Munemitsu blade has identical numeral and kana stamps to my Munetoshi, a star stamp smith from another part of the country... I am sure more research needs to be done, but I have never seen a sunobe/oil-quenched blade with a star stamp or in a Yasukuni mei smith or Minatogawa mei smith.

I was explaining in basic terms to Tom that the stamp on his sword indicated non-traditional...I did not mean to include Star stamp and other things in the statement...sorry.

George.

[David Flynn]

I remember reading, in an old issue of the JSSUS, I believe, that the WW11 smith, Yoshindo Kuniie, became and inspector, who applied star stamps?

[george trotter]

I too remember something of the kind...I wonder if anyone can find this reference...and confirm that the star stamp was put on by the Army... If so, then it may confirm that the Jumei Tosho, who were issued tamahagane like the Yasukunitosho and others, also produced their swords without stamps, and in the finished state these were star stamped are part of the Army system of accounting...not part of the seki/sho stamp regulation.

Not to be provocative, but on the question of some star stamped swords failing shinsa (if this is true...and the reason is not using tamahagane), it makes one wonder how a shinto period Echizen or Musashi Yasutsugu, marked on the nakago as made with "namban tetsu" can get through?

 

Just to correct my words above, the numbers and kana stamped on the sword in Slough p.117 actually match those on my star stamped Kunishiro. My Yamagami Munetoshi has no star stamp, although he was a Jumei Tosho...it does have numbers on the nakago however so was made to some accounting system also.

One last thing ...Bob, I called you Tom...sorry.

regards,

George.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

More about star stamp.

 

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_115.htm

[george trotter]

So Jacques, what do you think Ohmura san is saying about forging of star stamp swords ?

George.