ID Help Please (Type 98, Shin Gunto, Officer's Sword?)

[EryrWen]

Hi all, this is a family owned sword handed down to me; my only information is that it's from Burma, WW2.

 

Not an expert in any way (hence this post) my research suggests it's a Type 98 and the blue and brown tassel's suggest that it may have been an Officer's sword.

 

Caveating, that I may be asked to remove the hilt, the brass/wood pin looks perished so wouldn't feel confident doing that sorry...

 

If you guys could help with anything else that'd be appreciated - value would be useful though currently have no intention on selling.

 

Many thanks in advance.

[ChrisW]

Its entirely okay if the pin is destroyed in removing it! The information that could be on the nakago is far more important. It could tell us who made it, the date, or even if it is a traditionally made blade, arsenal blade, or even an older blade mounted for war.

As for replacing the pin, you can simply whittle one from a chopstick: it is the same material.

Other information that might be useful: Can you get us a measurement of how long the cutting edge of the blade is?

[EryrWen]

I have removed the hilt with a friend's help; photos attached.

 

Blade measures 27 inches from tip to guard (tsuba?) blade side.

[ChrisW]

Looks like you've got a gendaito (traditionally made wartime blade) on your hands. I cannot reach the kanji myself, so I will let others who can chime in.

At least that is my first impression based on the fact that it is signed, dated, and lacks an arsenal stamp that I can see. However, I could be wrong so please wait for others who can identify the smith to let you know.

[EryrWen]

Thanks for looking Chris, appreciate it! -I've learnt more about the sword in 3 hours than in the last 30 years of owning it!

 

If anyone else has any info it'd be massively appreciated, happy to provide better photos, measurements of needed.

 

[AlexiG]

34 minutes ago, EryrWen said:

Thanks for looking Chris, appreciate it! -I've learnt more about the sword in 3 hours than in the last 30 years of owning it!

 

If anyone else has any info it'd be massively appreciated, happy to provide better photos, measurements of needed.

 

Hi EryrWen,

 

it is helpful if the pictures of the nakago are posted with blade-tip up. Easier to read. I am taking a stab in the dark but it seems you have a seki stamp on the nakago. Meaning the sword was inspected before issued to military. You can read more here.  The smith's name is Yoshimitchi (吉道) best I can tell. Picture of nakago below. There is a gendaito smith with that name, given name (小島 幸七, Kanetoki Koushichi I think). I am sure others will chime in if I have gotten it wrong.

 

There is a date of manufacture on your sword as well (on the other side of the nakago) but folks may need a better picture to read it.

 

Best,

Alexi

 

[EryrWen]

Thanks Alexi, yes agreed on the Seki symbol, I'll be interesting to read up on the maker this evening.

 

Here are some better (?) photos.

[Rawa]

https://japaneseswordindex.com/showato.htm

Seki stamp no star, showato.

Don't put money into repilishing.

[EryrWen]

Noted, thanks Rawa

[Scogg]

@EryrWen  I’m going to move this discussion over to the “Military Swords of Japan” section, because I think it fits better there and you may get more feedback.

 

All the best,

-Sam 

[Kiipu]

Name of swordsmith: 吉道 Yoshimichi.

Date made: 昭和十七年三月 1942 March.

[ChrisW]

There you go! I missed that stamp. Still, its good to know the history of what you have.

[EryrWen]

Thanks all, it's changed it from just "that samurai sword" to something with a little more meaning.

 

Given it's non-traditional, I'm going to tidy it up a bit; get rid of the active rust and miscoloured tape etc.. I'm not an idiot when it comes to rust removal so will take care, likewise not an expert so any " dont's " or tips with this type of blade would be appreciated.

 

Eryr.

[Brian]

Amateur polishing and restoration is very frowned on here. Nothing more than oiling and wiping is advocated.
Whatever you do, don't remove ANY of the patina on the tang, this is vital to any value the sword has, and it is never cleaned up aside from light wiping to prevent active rust

[EryrWen]

Thanks Brian, Autosol polish applied using fingers or soft cloth was recommended? Hopefully this isn't too invasive, again excuse my naivety, it's had zero care since at least ~1950, just looking to get the red off!

[lonely panet]

go for it,  just a seki-to. no one cares about seki-to.

 

but what if it wasnt a seki-to,  what if it was a aoe tachi.  and some idiot told you the same thing?? what then?

[ROKUJURO]

EryWen (please use a first name to sign your posts),

AUTOSOL is for chrome plated car bumpers. Japanese swords should only be treated with traditional Japanese methods by trained craftsmen.

[Bruce Pennington]

Japanese Sword Care Guide

 

The sword as a family heirloom and a valuable piece of world history. Disregard anyone who says that it’s not worth taking care of. People’s lives were given for their countries, and these swords represented that.

 

The discussion in the link above about that stamp is pretty good, but it came before we made new discoveries about its origin. The large Seki stamp was used by the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers Association.  It was a civilian organization, not a military one that was inspecting blades to ensure quality and weed out poor quality swords.

 

 

[Rawa]

29 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

"The sword as a family heirloom and a valuable piece of world history. Disregard anyone who says that it’s not worth taking care of. People’s lives were given for their countries, and these swords represented that."

In this particular case blade in my opinion looks better now then if it would be repolished with any money. 

[EryrWen]

Thanks Bruce, that's the perfect sentiment - our family story says it was taken directly from a deceased Japanese soldier on a Burmese beach, the soldier had either been executed by his own sword or killed by an associate with it (Seppuku?); true or not I can't verify, but my grandfather was a straight talking man and we had no reason to doubt him.

 

Thanks all for your input on this thread; the forum in general was extremely useful in research, I found multiple posts from 2011 etc.. to help any future clueless individuals like myself who may have a similar sword, here are my swords info:

 

• Signed on tang (mei): 吉道 (Yoshimichi)

• Real name of smith: 小島 幸七 (Kojima Kōshichi)

• Affiliation: Seki Tōken Tanrenjo (関刀剣鍛錬所), Gifu Prefecture, Minho Province

  • Listed in the official 1939 Seki Arsenal Swordsmith Booklet

• Date on tang: 昭和十七年二月 (February 1942) – wartime manufacture

• Seki Arsenal Stamp (関): Present above signature, indicating official military production, non traditional and oil-tempered.

 

Eryr.

 

[robinalexander]

23 hours ago, EryrWen said:

just looking to get the red off!

I guess your talking about the nakago ..... try a course piece of cotton cloth and a little oil ... rub it hard and touch up every few months....it will stop the red rust and will not change the nature of the patina but Autosol will (in the negative).

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

5 hours ago, EryrWen said:

....Seki Arsenal Stamp (関): Present above signature, indicating official military production, non traditional and oil-tempered.

Hi Eryr,

no, it is not oil tempered, but oil hardened/quenched. Tempering (YAKIMODOSHI in Japanese) is the process that follows quenching to reduce brittleness and to gain toughness. 

[Bruce Pennington]

7 hours ago, EryrWen said:

Seki Arsenal Stamp (関): Present above signature, indicating official military production,

The large Seki stamp was a civilian organization- Seki Culery Manufacturers Association.  These blades were sold to both civilians and military.  Yours went to the military.