Chokutô Sword?

[Geinz]

Who thinks anything about this sword? The sword was found several years ago. The sword is roughly 1200 years old

[lonely panet]

I have serious doubts of to its age as the corrosion is to even.

 

but what would I know

[Geinz]

Hamfish    it is great argument!!  i think you are nothing know about corrosion.

[CSM101]

Who said that this sword is more than 1.200 years old? Judging by the rust I really have my doubts.

 

Uwe G.

[Shugyosha]

It looks like junk to me. 

[Geinz]

Good. Remove the rust from the discussion. What do we see?

[Geinz]

For all rust specialists. Balhae spears 9-10 century. They are also 1200 years old.

I know a little more about rust;)

[PNSSHOGUN]

Well beyond the scope of most of the collectors here. Anything of value is lost under that rust, even if it were to be polished.

[CSM101]

Good. Remove the rust from the discussion. What do we see?

Maybe a sword. Age ond origin unknown.

 

Uwe G.

[Geinz]

It's from that region. 13th century. All the great experts on rust can translate what is written there ))))))))

 

This from the ground is found by archaeologists and is described.

[vajo]

Geinz

 

When i treat a old rusty iron which was layed in wet humity not older than 50 years with renaissance de-corroder it looks like the same as your pieces. You can't see nothing on black rust because it isn't longer patination

[Geraint]

Dear Sergei.

 

Please add your name to your posts as per board rules.  May I ask what your intention in posting this is?  You are working in a foreign language and have my utmost respect 

for that but as yet I am not clear what you want to know or to say.

 

The sword you show may indeed be a chokuto from the Nara or Heian period but as such it falls well outside the area of expertise of most of our members.  Such swords are generally archaeological finds or preserved in temples and they rarely come on the market.

 

From the limited references that I have for swords of this period I would describe your example as a kiriha zukuri chokuto with a kamasu gissaki.  It is similar in form to examples from the Shoso-in now in the Tokyo National Museum.  Of the examples I have references for yours is unusual in that the tang is offset markedly, most similar form swords have a central tang, however there are examples of similar swords which do have the offset tang.

 

You may find this interesting, http://www.webalice.it/tsubame1/Downloads/1)%20On%20the%20origins%20of%20Nihonto.pdf

 

You can find this by going to the bottom of the main page here, go to Articles and Documents and scroll down.

 

All the best.

[ROKUJURO]

Good. Remove the rust from the discussion. What do we see?

Geinz,

 

the shape looks indeed like a CHOKUTÔ. To find out more, you need Japanese specialists to look at it. The impression of the cutting edge is that the blade was misused rather recently. Corrosion builds up differently in different conditions, so we can't say much with these photos.

 

There are so many fakes on the market that you really need specialists for an evaluation.

 

By the way, if it was really an original, I would NEVER touch it with my bare hands!   

[Geinz]

if you do not like the iPhone camera

[Geinz]

Geraint    I am not Sergey/ ( it is good if you are know him )

 

ROKUJURO  I have it  and I hold it with my hands, the cuts were made then it was not sharpened, after the battle it was buried in the ground, a big fighter waved to them

[Geraint]

Dear Alex.

 

My mistake, you still need to add your name to your posts.

 

All the best.

[Stephen]

MHO its fake, rust no older than me. all Chokuto we see have lost more steel to rust. Another hoax from the great bear??

[Stephen]

[Geinz]

 

Stephen  Man`s shown famous photos HMO  is  priceless.

 

[Shugyosha]

Alex,

 

You need to stop using Google translate - what you are writing makes no sense in English.  

[Geinz]

 

Shugyosha   Хорошо, я воспользуюсь вашим советом, к сожалению у меня нет большого количества времени, чтобы показать свою не очень богатую эрудицию в английском языке.

 

[Geinz]

.

[CSM101]

Okay, that is too far for my russian speaking abilities: "Good....."a lot of blanks and in the end "..english language". But as always russian is an interesting language.

 

Just one question: the blade in the left corner is your sword?

 

Uwe G.

[Geinz]

 

CSM101 not

 

[Marius]

For all rust specialists. Balhae spears 9-10 century. They are also 1200 years old.

I know a little more about rust;)

 

 

Good for you, why do you ask, then? 

[Marius]

Perhaps another http://www.tachisword.com

 

 

 

I am sorry Alex, it but the one above is just hillarious and it is Russian scam. Fortunately, we have some serious Russian collectors here on the board.

 

Of course your chokuto may be 100% genuine. But judging by photographs? Impossible. 

[CSM101]

Hi Alex,

 

I don´t know where the sword was found and in what kind of condition it was. I can only speculate on your photos.

 

Three points: the tip is too long and in a certain part the edge is too sharp for an old sword.

 

The bending seems to be new. I do not know how much you paid for the sword. The last chokuto (rusted) I know of was sold for 400 EUR.

 

Uwe G.

[Stephen]

Appraised: 105,000,000 US **

 

 

  ** APPRAISAL IS DONE WITH TECHNOLOGY TES THE WORLD'S FIRST AND ONLY MATH-BASED, AUDITABLE AND FULLY TRANSPARENT ART APPRAISAL TECHNOLOGY.

 

 

LMAO

[Jean]

Alex,

 

Alex wrote:

« Well, I'm going to use your advice, unfortunately I don't have much time to show my not-so-rich erudition in the English language« 

 

My answer:

 

Try French, if it is easier

 

Попробуйте французский, если это проще..

[Geinz]

Увы Жан  французский мы знаем на уровне - гараж, абажур )))) Показали вещь, кто понял тот понял. по большей части коментаторов хочется процитировать лишь нашего  Министра иностранных дел )) Ну а чтоб язык не ломать секира интересна кроме всего прочего тем что на ней больше полусотни зазубрин, которые не сточили, владелец погиб от ран,  и был в спешке прикопан на холме, что там было черт его знает, но местность как говорят там специфичесая ни речек ни пресной воды доступной нет, по видемому от кого-то сваливали,  кто и что это было  маленькая загадка, ясно лишь то чтовладелц погиб в стычке и был наспех прикопан, кто он был хз. Обяснять  на английском  "эрудированной" публике как выглядит железо из земли увы не реально в виду скромных знаний технического английского    Просто показали широкой публике секиру )) дело происходило на территории  Приморского края.