Fake Type 95 Nco Swords

[Bruce Pennington]

Well, the latch is right, the stamps are right, the tsuba looks good, the few dimples visible look good, and the numbers look right.  Since the mekugi screw looks to be a replacement, maybe the sarute is too.  450 is a steal if it's legit.  But when a seller refuses extra photos, that could be a caution.  Ask about his return policy.

[Bridges]

Funny you mention that @Bruce Pennington, seller does not accept returns.

[Bruce Pennington]

No photos, no returns.  "Danger Will Robinson!" as an old robot used to say.  I've seen that fake mekugi on Chinese fakes, so it's possible this whole tsuka is a replica/fake on a legit 95.

[Bridges]

My how the market bites, a Franken-sword. This is why I ask y’all the hard questions lol this is the post if you want to dig deeper

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354457570142?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=hdbaqsgotmk&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=5b5Igx0HQ7e&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[robinalexander]

Noah may not be a franken sword. 

 

The problem here is that the seller is not able/willing to provide any additional pics, or any clear ones for that matter so as Bruce indicated, it's 'buyer beware'.  The no returns policy doesn't worry me IF the seller has been upfront and provided all the info and pics you reasonably request.  So far they have not.

 

Personally, there is way too much paint gone from the tsuka for me and IMO problably for a first Type 95 for you.  Get a better one first up. Just my opinion.

 

No urgency here, the auction has 5 days to run so no telling how high it will go.  As far as I am aware "offers" are not available for this type of ebay sale. It has to run its course.

 

The seller has only sold 2 items on Ebay and this is the second one, so make of that what you may.

 

If your still keen, I would again ask for clearer pics ....particularly of the reverse side of the tsuka and saya (none shown so far) and the scabbard throat to see if matching numbers....this is quite relevant to the final sale price. If you don't get those pics, again personally, I would give it a miss.

 

In any event...google the sale recent prices of Type 95's (not asking prices) and there is some info on this on NMB, auction sites etc.

 

Maybe ask NMB (Military Swords thread) if any members with 95's live near you.  They could send you a personal message (PM)....most will help you get 'hands on' if they can.

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

[Bridges]

Thanks Rob, I’ll keep browsing and see what I can find. I’m just trying to find a 95 without breaking the bank. I’ll follow up later if i find another contender! Someone commented yesterday and they live about an hour away so hopefully they can help me navigate this community locally

[John C]

Noah:

A couple of observations: The clasp hooked to the hanger looks legit. It would go on the end of a leather strap hooked to the hanger ring. The serial number on the blade, however, gives me pause. There does not seem to be an arsenal mark after the numbers. Not unheard of, but very rare. And indeed, 67977 can be made with just two stamps. Nothing conclusive without better pictures. I too believe the low feedback number, the unwillingness to provide better pictures, and initial bad pictures send up some red flags. 

John C.

[Kiipu]

17 hours ago, Bridges said:

My how the market bites, a Franken-sword.

 

The sword is kosher if in the 67,000 range.  The mekugi nut looks like it is put on backward though.  As for the lack of a visible blade inspection mark, sometimes they are stamped far to the right of the serial number on Tōkyō's.

[Bridges]

I’ll move it over

 

[Shamsy]

2 hours ago, Bridges said:

This fitting seems fake to me 🤔

It doesn't look like a 95 or as though it is trying to be one. Could we please endeavour to keep this thread specific to educational information and examples of genuine VS fake Type 95 swords.

[vajo]

2 hours ago, Bridges said:

This fitting seems fake to me 🤔

What Sword is that spoke about? That kabutogane is not fake!

 

[Bruce Pennington]

A Monstrosity!  Tsuka looks legit, but fuchi?  Tokyo inspector stamp is upside-down, and the contractor stamp is a rough Mizuno logo. What faker in his right mind would fake a Mizuno stamp?  What faker has ever HEARD of Mizuno?  The blade has no bohi, like the late war 95s.  The saya has a Type 98 sayajiri and the whole thing painted a hideous green, with a Type 95 saya throat at the top.

 

 

And dig this:

@Shamsy @Stegel 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

A bad fake at a Echoes of Glory International Military Auction House auction

[John C]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

A bad fake

The good news is the stamps are so bad they are easy to tell. The bad news is the auction houses make them seem legit to unsuspecting customers.

John C.

[Shamsy]

8 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

A Monstrosity! 

 

 

So what I see here is a genuine tsuka, genuine tsuba and genuine fuchi. Yes the stamp is bad, but it looks like it's just a bad strike, maybe two attempts. Yes, one stamp is upside-down, but that happens and doesn't mean anything. An extra stamp to the fuchi rear is not uncommon on the very few Mizuno we have seen. The rest? Probably garbage bits from whatever was laying around.

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, Shamsy said:

 

So what I see here is a genuine tsuka, genuine tsuba and genuine fuchi. Yes the stamp is bad, but it looks like it's just a bad strike, maybe two attempts. Yes, one stamp is upside-down, but that happens and doesn't mean anything. An extra stamp to the fuchi rear is not uncommon on the very few Mizuno we have seen. The rest? Probably garbage bits from whatever was laying around.

Thanks Steve.  In the one shot that shows a partial view of the saya throat, it looks like it was newly made and not even close to WWII shape.

 

Also, I was initially put off by the angled file mark pattern on the fuchi, but after checking the only other one I have on file, it has the same look/texture.  Seems to be a Mizuno fuchi style.

[Shamsy]

A wretched thing that the rest of the sword is missing. These are so rare and hard to come by. Makes me cringe to think how genuine pieces got mixed up with cheap fantasy katana bits.

[Kiipu]

While not on the high-end of the scale, it does have a black leather combat cover.

Japanese sword id please

[Mich]

Hey Fellows...hope it ok to parachute in here.  I am a Brit cavalry sword guy but was given this the other day by a friend.  He acquired some firearms from a museum closing down which included an Arisaka and this sword.

 

Am reading up on these and am surprised that there is such a fake market for them! - this has left me wondering as to authenticity.

 

The drag appears to be missing and the scabbard appears to have a device wrapped around it.  Numbers appear to match etc.  It was missing one screw? through the grip so I replaced it with a chop stick!

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Mitch,

The blade is apparently a Nagoya Arsenal blade and legit.  The saya (scabbard) seems to have been a replacement from an earlier copper-handled gunto.  They had no drag.  Could you show a photo of the matching serial number on the saya throat?  The band is called a semegane (scabbard ring) and belongs on officer gunto, not NCO gunto.  Does it look like it's been there for a long time?  Dirt/grime build-up around the edges, maybe?  Or does it look like it's been added post-war?

 

I'm curious as to how well the saya throat piece fits on the rest of the saya.  Can you show a photo of the other side where the retaining screw is, and the juncture where the pieces fit together?

 

If there had not been matching numbers, I'd say right off that the scabbard was a piece-together conglomeration.  But why would a Bubba have a matching saya throat but not the original saya and have to find another saya to replace it with?  That makes me think the saya was a field replacement.  But the semegane?  Could the whole rig be one of the officer purchase/rentals of an NCO sword?  It would make the whole rig appear more closely to being an officer sword.

 

@Stegel @Shamsy @BANGBANGSAN

[Mich]

Hello Bruce

 

Here are the pics you requested.  Hope they are what you were looking for.

 

Thanks,

 

Mich

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

OHHHH!  The saya is original, but the drag was actually removed!  

 

Also interesting, is the grey paint.  @Stegel has a couple of these, I believe, in his collection and the paint looks wartime period paint.  There is even some on the semegane, which supports my postulation that it was "converted" to an officer gunto by someone who bought the NCO sword during the sword shortage.

 

A very interesting item you have there.

@robinalexander

[Mich]

56 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

OHHHH!  The saya is original, but the drag was actually removed!  

 

Also interesting, is the grey paint.  @Stegel has a couple of these, I believe, in his collection and the paint looks wartime period paint.  There is even some on the semegane, which supports my postulation that it was "converted" to an officer gunto by someone who bought the NCO sword during the sword shortage.

 

A very interesting item you have there.

@robinalexander

Oh dear....feeling pull down yet another collector rabbit hole....must resist!

[Shamsy]

Nice to have a matched sword. Shame about the missing screw and... unusual alterations to the saya.

 

Grey paint appears somewhat frequently on bayonets too, Bruce. Post war, they were painted grey, often had writing added and sold as souvenirs to servicemen. Hence they exhibit the appropriate age patina. There are a number of examples in the excellent book Bayonets of Japan, which I posted in another thread when the topic of plexiglass on swords and bayonets came up.

 

@Mich, if you could carefully remove the screw on the saya throat (it is brass so use a properly fitting screwdriver), the throat will lift out and you can see the original colour, green or brown. It won't hurt the saya at all.

[Mich]

17 minutes ago, Shamsy said:

Nice to have a matched sword. Shame about the missing screw and... unusual alterations to the saya.

 

Grey paint appears somewhat frequently on bayonets too, Bruce. Post war, they were painted grey, often had writing added and sold as souvenirs to servicemen. Hence they exhibit the appropriate age patina. There are a number of examples in the excellent book Bayonets of Japan, which I posted in another thread when the topic of plexiglass on swords and bayonets came up.

 

@Mich, if you could carefully remove the screw on the saya throat (it is brass so use a properly fitting screwdriver), the throat will lift out and you can see the original colour, green or brown. It won't hurt the saya at all.

Thanks @Shamsy  Doesn't appear to have any color that I can make out.  

[Shamsy]

Well that is interesting! They left the factory with that throat being painted (not entirely sure why, I guess rust protection), so saya and throat must have been stripped down at some stage. Thanks for doing that, Mich.

[Mich]

11 hours ago, Shamsy said:

Well that is interesting! They left the factory with that throat being painted (not entirely sure why, I guess rust protection), so saya and throat must have been stripped down at some stage. Thanks for doing that, Mich.

Just theorizing - perhaps when the drag was removed (and the semegane positioned), the whole assembly including throat was stripped, re-assembled, and painted?  

[robinalexander]

On 4/27/2023 at 1:07 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

which supports my postulation that it was "converted" to an officer gunto by someone who bought the NCO sword during the sword shortage

Yes Bruce  @Bruce Pennington I like your idea on this in terms of officer conversion.  

 

My 'grey' saya has a definate hint of green in it (attached pic) ....should start counting and documenting them as I reckon there must be over fifty shades of grey so far 

[Mich]

Saw this one on the ole ebay

 

The pictures on the retailer's business sight are a bit better quality compared to the ebay listing itself.

 

Japanese WWII Type 95 NCO Sword - Hero Outdoors

[Brian]

Why are you preventing hot linking? We don't ban live links here, so what are we gaining?