Bruce Pennington

Thanks Trystan, very informative! Sorry about the "I". I just don't know how to do that with my keyboard, but I've got it now and can copy/paste "工", ha! I've updated the Mantetsu Study Charts with tabulations on blades with Nan, Ren, Ren/工, and W stamps. Out of 32 '43s, 14 have Nan stamps (and 1 '44 has it) Of 11 '44s, 8 are Ren stamped, with 3 Ren/工. I have 8 blades W stamped - 4 '42 (all Koa), 3 '43, and 1 '44 If our theory on the source of the W stamp being the Tokyo Arsenal finishing blades supplied by Mantetsu, as per Nick Komiya's document, it's clear the practice was in place a couple of years before the document's date of 1944. I suspect there were orders made in the previous years, and this single document is the only one we have knowledge of. The existance of Koa Isshin blades in '43 & '44 raise the question of WHO was making blades with the Nan and Ren stamps. One option is that the SMR Mantetsu factory was making them all, and for some reason was making both Koa and non-Koa blades simultaneously. Another option is that, per Ohmura's theory, Mantetsu had taught the Mukden arsenal to make blades the Mantesu way and blades marked with Nan, Ren, and Ren/工 are Mukden manufactured. Option 3 is that Mantetsu was supplying unfinished blades to Mukden just as they were to Tokyo, and the finished blades were stamped by Mukden accordingly. BUT we have 2 '43s with BOTH a Nan and a W stamp, and 1 '44 with both stamps!!! This COULD bring us back to option 1, with SMR Mantetsu making them all and using Nan, Ren, Ren/工, and W stamps for reasons yet unknown. So, still very little facts, and much speculation, but it's been fun chasing it down. Document 3.0 attached.mantetsu serial numbers (1)-converted.pdf

Ok, I've got 3 now, all Spring 1944: Se 2340, Se 3575, and "?" 199. Had an interesting discussion with someone about the "I", or rail stamp. It was proposed that the "I" means, or represents "Factory or Work" in both Chinese and Japanese. If so, the Mantetsu logo simply says "Mantetsu Factory". Likewise, the combined "Ren" and "I" would say "Mukden Factory" and support the idea that these blades were made at the Mukden Arsenal, or at least finished from Mantetsu supplied blades.

Update: From my collecting serial numbers, I have checked and found "W" stamps on 4 '42s, 3 '43s, and one '44. So, if Nick's document dictating the supply of unfinished blades to the Tokyo arsenal explains the origin of the stamp on Mantetsu blades, the practice was in place before '44.

Just an FYI: the stamp is a "Showa" stamp. Used between mid '40 to early '42, so if the other side isn't dated that will give you a ballpark.

We'll need Steve or Stegel to evaluate that one! Nice tsuba, but horrific seppa. Inspector mark on blade is nice, but horrible on the fuchi. Can't say I like the bohi (fuller groove) for a supposed Tokyo blade, but I've been wrong before. Steve? Stegel?

I'm no Type 19 expert, but it sure looks nice to me!

I told him I'd report him if he didn't remove this. Here's his reply. So, I reported him. Don't know what will happen, I've never tried that before!

Yes, thesamuraimonkey42, is another one of those unscrupulous sellers.

Nice job on that one Steve! Gorgeous! I didn't know G.I.s were doing that, but comparing the two, I still feel mine was a plasticized paint, very thin and not aged like yours.

Wow, what a transformation! Beautiful! (Do I already have the date and serial number on that one?)

Agree. Interesting topic though.

I enjoyed the work, but it WAS work! I used acetone just in case the original paint was still under there, but it wasn't. My late war 95 also had a horrific re-paint. When that was removed, the original paint was still there thankfully!

Erwin, My sentiments exactly! I have a Type 95 NCO gunto that was totally stripped and painted gold. Even the blade was painted with a transluscent gold! In researching it, back then, people came up with some interesting insights, like - right after the war, many still hated the Japanese and anything representing Japanese, so guys would use war swords as weed-wackers and wood chippers intentionally out of disrepect. Another guy grew up in England to a theater family. He said, as a kid, he saw "piles" of swords backstage, most painted gold (when you're doin The King and I, the king certainly wasn't going to have a G.I. green sword! so they painted them gold). I stripped mine and repainted.

It’s not being sold by Showa22, by chance?

Found another '44 with Ren and "I" stamp. Don't have the serial number on it, but have messaged the owner. Hopefully he's still active! Like Neil's, it's in Rinji, Type 3, mounts.

Anybody seen anything like this before?!?! It's posted on this website, https://www.warstuff.com/RARE-WW2-1945-Japanese-Marine-Landing-Forces-Off-i1555977.htm but here's the pics:

About 3 different areas of hobby/enthusiasm involved in your question! Some folks love the craft of restoring a blade to as close to original condition as possible, with fittings. Some of us believe that every war sword deserves respect and is worth collecting/preserving. Some are in it for the buy/sell challenge, or just the chance to earn more "fun money". But many of us just collect, and each of us collect different things for different reasons.

That one’s quite ugly. Likely a fake.

Well, Tom’s looks very similar to the last one on the bottom right. Not the same, but similarities.

Neil, The true answer is "Who knows@!#!?" But, personally, I'm going with - it's a "tip-o'the-hat" to the SMR factory. By removing the circular "M"around the rail, it could indicate this was NOT made at Mantetsu, but made in the Mantetsu-way. But a sample of 1 is obviously way too little to go on (though, it does add to the Nan/Ren evidence). Thanks for the post!

Neil's mon matches the one on Ohmura's site, as well as matching these two medals:

Blade looks nice, but the rest seems to be Franken-gunto. That kabutogane is really icky, like a bad reproduction.

Here’s an enlarged pic:

I have never seen this before! Beautiful Ko, by the way!

And I have seen both old fullered blades and blades made during the war with them. I'd say they're aren't "common", but you see them here and there. I have one that is chromed and light-weight, so probably made as a dress sword, factory made.