Bruce Pennington

Many thanks to Jon (PNSSHOGUN), for a great link that had 4 Mantetsu for sale ( Japanese site, double USA prices). One of them had the assembly numbers matching the seppa, stamped on the nakago! “278” “W”

Thanks John! That put me at 73 Mantetsu blades on the list! (I found 3, and DRDave found 1 more, so if there are more than 4 let me know).

The sword shortage began early as Japan realized the need to reject the cavalry styled blades and return to the samurai style. There were at least 2 big government efforts, 1938 and 1942, but I suspect it was throughout the war. Here is a section of Nick Komiya’s discussion of it on Warrelics: The 1942 program that relates to that leaflet is strictly an army program, managed under the Chief of Army Weapons HQ and evolved from the earlier 1938 program which was indeed a army/navy joint program. This appraisal organization was established on 19th February by Army Regular Ordinance 990. It was a program supported by the local Veterans Association as well as the Taiseiyokusankai Political Party. Municipalities would announce the dates and venues of the appraisal sessions and the army sent its appraisers to do preliminary screening. Only the swords that passed this screening were sent further to the HQ of the Officer Gunto Appraisal Committee 将校軍刀監査委員会 for a full screening to determine a fair price. Owners of swords that passed got a notice of appraised value through their local municipal office and the money was remitted by the Gunjinkaikan. Those swords were polished and set into proper new Koshirae and sold to Army officers. Yes, the maximum blade quality for this program was 500 Yen, which meant that they would sell at much higher prices than the Rinjiseishiki specials. If there were swords that got dropped in the second appraisal, they got returned to owners with detailed explanations as to why. The program only required the blades, but owners who wished to sell the swords complete with Koshirae was paid for the Koshirae as well. “I just checked the original army/navy joint buy-up program rules announced in the fall of 1938 and discovered that the blade length criteria of minimum 54.5 cm was already in effect from that time. The 1942 rules are more streamlined and easier for the public to follow and contribute, but otherwise it is the same program, just without the involvement of the navy. Last edited by nick komiya; 12-23-2017 at 01:59 PM.” The thread is here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/family-short-blades-gunto-688110/

I see, but it still doesn’t jive with the claims that the factory was cranking out 400 blades per month.

Stephen, my FB is shut down for a while. Do you think you could ask the guy for the full date and serial number?

I have recently seen 2 different Mantetsu gunto being sold on Japanese websites. Both were (forgive me if I'm using the wrong term) officially registered and had papers. I've seen Type 95s being sold as well. Does anyone know if something new has changed regarding showato in Japan? Here's a link to one. I can't remember where I saw the other. http://www.Japanese-sword-katana.jp/katana/1710-1042.htm

A quick update on the tabulations. I've added tracking for seasons on the dates - Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter. Amazingly, out of 70 blades, 60 are "Spring"!!! I have NO speculation as to the reason. More than half of the years are in the '41-'43 range (44 of them). One might expect that as the USA entered the war Dec '41. Blades made before that could have a higher chance of serving in China/Asia and ending up in Chinese hands. Still puzzled by the total absence of '45 blades. I greatly appreciate the tips coming in from you guys on blades I haven't seen yet! Updated charts attached. Mantetsu Serial Numbers.docx

Didier, I assume by "army gunto" you mean wartime showato? as opposed to an old blade retr-fitted for army use? Because gunto simply means "army sword" (gun - army; to - sword), so any blade, old or new, fitted for army use would be called a gunto.

That's quite gorgeous Martin! Seems custom made. Dawson points out that there was a multitude of variations of this model. What is that on the guard, that I circled? Is it a stamp or just a smudge? If stamp - is it something you can clean so we can see what it is? Grant, didn't the Germans stamp their blades with "Solengen" or something similar?

Yes “shingunto”. But their effort truly was a “sin!”

Bingo! Nice work Ray!

The serial numbers in the blade are a sure mark of a fake. Without the numbers and kanji on the blade, they might have tried to pass it off as an island sword.

Right side up:

Great example. Hey am I seeing black same’ on that army Guntō?

You might be referring to the painted on assembly numbers? Not uncommon. My theory is that contract swords bought directly from a sword shop wouldn’t have those numbers. The painted ones are likely from the Arsenal factories and larger companies that cranked out larger numbers at a time. Just speculation though.

And after all that, it's not signed! Well, standard Type 98 WWII gunto. The officer obviously paid for the sharkskin upgraded tsuka, but it's odd that the seppa are seemingly plain (though, someone, post-war, may have stripped them). Closeups of the blade and hamon (temper line) would confirm whether oil quenched showato, but it probably is. Decent pattern, though.

Tom, After seeing everything in better focus, I agree with Steve that this gunto probably had a full leather cover originally. I couldn't comprehend them missing ashi (suspension ring). They don't come off. But if this were covered in leather, the ashi for that style are different and probably did slip off once the leather cover went missing. I wouldn't call this "late-war" at all. It could have been made at any point in the war. I don't know if I'm communicating clearly about the mekugi peg. It comes completely out of the handle. Sometimes they are fatter on one end (the end inside the handle) and must be pushed out that way. Sometimes, and yours seems to be one, the mekugi is short, and inserted at an angle. These can be fussy to get out, as you might have to poke a toothpic or something pointy in the open hole to guide the peg out as you push it from the other side. It's an important step to most of us collectors because the smith name, and sometimes a date, are stamped on the tang (nakago).

Thanks Tom. Have you tried tapping the mekugi peg out? That’s what holds the tsuka on.

Tom, An interesting piece. Could you give us some better pics of the circled areas I've posted? Your title calls it late-war, is that because of the quality of the metal fittings? Also, that same' looks like clear plastic? I've seen white plastic same' (I forgot the word they use for that), but not clear. That seems too modern for a WWII gunto. Let's see what better pics will tell us. From your current pics, it almost looks like there is a copper cylinder through the mekugi peg hole. It's too early to comment on the 2 or 3 options here, without more pics, though.

Thanks Steve for the great example! The screwdriver slot for the lower tsuka screw looks like it was simply stamped onto the surface of the nut! This one has the best faked Suya stamp I've ever seen, but they definitely blew the Kokura.

Sorry Ray! I posted before I saw your comment! Admittedly, translating kanji is my LEAST capable skill, but even I couldn't find any eras matching that marking. Thanks for breaking it down. The mei looks old, so do you think it's a geimei from the original smith? Also, the cut of the mei seems to have been made in the nakago as it was really hot. The metal seems to have given way to the cutting tool, like it was soft. Am I on track with that?

You might try running this by the Translation Assistance forum: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/15-translation-assistance/

Well, guess I actually DID have that one, but thanks for the tip! I must have gotten it from another source because I definitely didn’t recognize that dealer posting.

Thanks Stephen, I don’t have that one. He doesn’t show the serial number so I sent him an email requesting it.

I don't believe I've posted my Stamps document on this thread. I originally posted it on a new thread, but realized it would be useful here, too. It's a compilation of all the discussions and documents I could find on blades stamps. Feel free to download/print and use. Not to be sold or used for commercial puposes as most of the info is from copyrighted sources. Stamps (1).pdf