Bruce Pennington

You continue to amaze, Thomas! Where do you find this stuff?

It's a topic that could easily spin off. I'll start one to expand this issue on Izakaya.

Fascinating bit of history at Warrelics about terms from Nick Komiya, responding to Thomas' digging up army kanji for "saya": https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Military-Civil-Swords-Dirks/dp/1574270621 "There is actually a small story of its own attached to the evolution of the Japanese language used by the army. In a nutshell, senior officers of the early IJA were ex-samurai, mainly from the southern island of Kyushu, and for the Samurai, learning classical Chinese was obligatory as Latin was for European intellectuals of the time. On the other hand, the ex-farmers that got inducted into the new army, though extremely literate by international standards of those times (In the Kyushu region, roughly 70% of the general population was literate). However, between those educated in classical Chinese and those with normal daily farm-hand literacy, there was naturally a world of disparity in Kanji literacy. Thus by 1940, there were too many complicated weapon names that simple soldiers could no longer keep up with. So the army finally decided to simplify its naming practices. They did this by restricting the weapons vocabulary to a maximum of 1,235 Kanji. Of this number, 959 were classified as class 1 kanji, obligatory for the most basic weapon ("A class weapons" 甲兵器 ) names. The Class 1 range was picked from Kanji you should know by the end of the 4th year in elementary school with a sprinkling of some simple 5th and 6th-grader kanji. There were further 276 Class 2 Kanjis taken from elementary school graduate level and applied to weapons used by higher qualified personnel ("B class weapons"乙兵器). Regarding the naming of the scabbard for the Type 95 sword as 革+室 as seen in the 1938 document. It may very likely be an army invented kanji (Ate-ji). Back in 1887, the army called the leather sheaths for field engineer tools Kaku-Shitsu, written 革室, literally meaning “leather chamber”. This word was used for 20 years until they changed the naming of the case to a bag, Fukuro 袋 in 1907. Arisaka of rifle design fame had a role in coining unique army naming practices that defied conventional kanji readings and he happened to be he chief of army weapons development, a position with enough clout to screw up army lingo beyond recognition to educated laymen. See here for details on that story. These two kanji seem to have been joined together later at the hip to mean Saya for the NCO swords. Thus 革+室 was already in use from the Type 32 swords. Officer swords on the other hand, had been using the more traditional Kanji for Saya 鞘 at least since the 1912 model officer swords. This difference in the kanji used for scabbard got carried over into the Type 94, 95 and 98 swords. Thus until weapon name kanji restrictions came into effect in Feb. 1940, officer and NCO swords did not share the same kanji for what would have been read Saya, whichever way you wrote it. The 1940 army lingo simplification worked also as a social equalizer in this respect, as both Kanji got dropped from the permissible kanji list. Saya 鞘 for officer swords continued to be used, but it became mandatory to add Furigana, showing how to read it. In the case of Type 95 swords, they simply ceased to use the army-coined kanji for Saya and switched to Hiragana, as seen in the manual shown from 1944 in post 14."

Or rather as gimei.

Well they got the blade tip down pretty close! Usually they get the tip wrong. I don’t see anything else, though that looks Japanese.

Kenny, My tendency with these, and we've seen a few lately, same style, is to lean toward - Chinese fake. I've never seen a "late war" officer or NCO gunto as crudely make as these. Can you post a clear picture of the blade tip? The only legit late-war 98's I've seen come with the style I'm posting a pic of. I could be wrong.

Sheesh Dan! My wife has even proposed I sell all my gunto to pay for the motorcycle I need to buy!!! What was she thinking?!?! To answer your question - if you claim the knee mortar is just a saya for a really short, fat tanto, then it can stay!

The mei is good enough on all 4 of our Possible Fakes, that if there were no other reason to suspect them, they would be considered legit. In fact, they are so good, and the serial numbers are using the correct kanji for the year-group, that I cannot 100% classify them as fake. But they are "under suspicion." JP, actually both of the Komonjo blades I have photos of, have the same polisher's marking:

I'm going to chime in on this, for what it's worth. I truly respect what you guys are doing by discouraging DIY polishing, and understand why it's a really bad idea. But have you guys clicked on any of his pics and enlarged them? If this blade were a nihonto, you'd be saying "Total write-off. This blade is worthless." and I have heard it said by many on these forums. If I had the search skills of Thomas, I'd pull them up and quote each of you on that. And this blade is worse off than any of them. So if a blade is "ruined" and is not worth resoration (in other words - trash) honestly - what difference does it make if a guy tries to remove some of the destruction? I personally think he is honoring this blade by his efforts to try to give it a little dignity back. Yes, if another rookie sees what he is doing, would he naively be encouraged to do the same thing to his newly acquired rusty nihonto? Possilby. But you've clearly discussed why that isn't good to do, so unlikely. I wouldn't do metal-work on any of my 95s or 32s to remove rust spots, but they are good blades. Adam's is truly a "gonner". I don't see his work as anything but an effort to save what he can of a destroyed blade. Please click on this pic:

Sure, most buyers would never know it's a fake. They'd be exceptionally happy to receive this gunto. The discrepancies are subtle. The file marks are sloppy and thinly applied. I compared a Mu 89, which would only be 2 blades apart from this one, and it's marks are precise and more deeply cut. That alone wouldn't put me off, but a heavier mark against this one is the mei. I have 42 1942's on file and they are ALL Koa Isshin mei. This mei, 満鉄鍛造之, doesn't appear on Mantetsu blades until 1943. I'll admit, one should never say never, nor always! BUT, this blade would be a first if legit. Add to this, like Thomas said, there have been 3 other "probable" fakes appear recently (Komonjo sales) that have the same polisher marks and have dedications added to the mei. So it fits the pattern of a particular Japanese faker that is periodically putting these out.

Nice work JP, and all from memory!!! I'll hold my comments until we get all the input we can.

There have been some recent discussion of WWII showato being sold on the civil market. It's possible this blade was originally sold that way, and later coverted to military mounts, requiring a new hole to fit the standard army tsuka.

Thought it would be enjoyable to run a thread where everyone could post pics of some of their favorite gunto. Different than the "Show Us Your High Class Gunto" thread, in that "favorite" doen't mean "high class." It could be favorite because it's messy, shot-up, certain fittings, etc. I'll start by re-posting some shots of my Christmas gift Kyu. I was doing some semi-annual cleaning/oiling and fell more in love with my first kyugunto. Really got lucky with this just at the time my wife was looking for one for me!

Thanks Wim and Stephen! I tried this in the JP translator and came up with: "Hiroshi Nemoto Lt Gen carrying sword"

As to markings on the blade - these are called horimono and are not common, usually artwork. Chinese fakes quite often mark on the blade with imitation Japanese kanji or dragons.

Oh how I live thee, let me count the ways ...

Jeremy, This is an officer's blade, and only NCO gunto were issued. Officers had to buy thier own and had quite a variety of places and ways to do that. Does yours have a stamp? Better pictures of the full nakago (tang), with the habaki off (brass collar) would help us all with your questions.

That's gorgeous Stephen. Nice eye-candy, thanks for sharing!!

I have a Muromachi era blade, mumei, that, as I have been told, was made during a time of many wars, and therefore was likely "mass-produced" to meet great demand. My Mantetsu is more beautiful and likely more battle worthy than that muromachi blade. The smiths of the muromachi era would have died of a heart attack if they had to face the numbers demanded of WWII smiths. Over a million blades produced! In a sense, the WWII mass-produced blades are kindred spirits with their muromachi brothers. The WWII smiths simply had "better" technology and more resources available to them than the muromachi smiths had. I understand the nomenclature the we now use to label/classify blades. It is useful for ease of communication. One guy can say he has a nice nihonto, and the other guy already knows what he's got without having to hear "I've got a nice Japanese sword made of tamahagane, heated with special coal, folded many times, and water quenched." The other guy can say, "hey, look at my great showato" and not have to say "Hey look at my great WWII blade made with unknown steel, not folded, and oil quenched." The terms save us time. LIke the muromachi blade (in truth all blades) we all know the value of the blade is in the craftsmanship and beauty, not the name. But then, that shoots us off into collectors' personal focus and we have another discussion all together!

Thomas, A google searh brings this up as a surname. There was a "loyal retainer", of the 47 Ronin, named Kanamaru: https://www.roningallery.com/oribe-yahei-kanamaru And a fighter ace with the name Kanamaru: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_aces_from_Japan So just a guess, but I'd bet it was the name of the owner. The blade was made by Amahide who had his own kakihan (hot stamp), so it likely wasn't tied to him specifically.

As to the fittings - there is quite a variety of mixed civil/military fittings. You can find privately owned blades that made it to the war in every combination from fully re-fitted to full civil and everything in between. You will find some post-war mix/matching done, so it's impossible to 100% say either way. But this one is believable as a war-time partial re-fit for a privately owned sword.

After your sketch, Neil, I agree with "Shi" シ. It was possible it was TSU ツ or SO ソ, but both of them are 1942 numbers. And while anamolies exists, they are rare. I'm putting this down as a Shi, unless someone puts up a good arguement for something else. Thanks Neil, it's been added. It's been 2 months since I posted the Mantetsu Study document. In that 2 months we've added 13 serial numbers and have made several corrections to existing kanji/serial numbers after a thorough review by Thomas (thanks Thomas!!!). So I've attached the latest version of it for those interested. mantetsu serial numbers (1).pdf

Neil, good buddy, I'm getting old! Any way you can get a more clear picture of that serial number? Especially that kanji at the top? It's obviously a Koa Isshin - Mantetsu made this; Spring 1943 Serial # ? 304. But there are a couple of kanji that COULD fit that image, but it's mighty blurred.

Another update to our English terms for WWII Japanese gunto parts, from Thomas over on Warrelics: The Type 95 Military Sword did not have a fuchi but a 柄環 [pronunciation unknown]. The English translation of 柄環 can be either "hilt collar" or "hilt ferrule" depending upon where you are from. Below is the character breakdown for those that want to see the literal translation. 柄 = HEI, tsuka = hilt, handle, grip. 環 = KAN, wa, tamaki = ring, circle. For a list of the parts used on the copper and aluminium handled Type 95's, see the JACAR document C12120578900 below. [Data in English is under preparation] ２３．陸普第１１６４号 兵器修理区分表／（１）刀､剣､槍 Found here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/short-development-history-type-95-gunto-676112-11/ So "ashi" is civilian and the military called it a "haikan" 佩環 and the fuchi is called a "heikan" 柄環 on the Type 95 I know the haikan term applies to all gunto, both officer and NCO. I'm checking to see if the "heikan" term is specific to the Type 95 or true for all WWII gunto.

I know David's thread is mainly about gimei done during the war, but a modern threat that has arisen is the gimei of Mantetsu. I have a couple of examples, made in Japan and sold through Komonjo, that could be wartime, mumei blades that have had the Mantetsu mei added recently. Additionally, we have heard of Chinese efforts to create fake ones. I could see the need for future shinsa teams to identify real/fake showato.