Bruce Pennington

Ha! Didn't see Kenny's reply before I posted. And just for those without the book, Dawson says the bare backstrap is of the "Hannin" rank. Hannin were the NCO equivilent of the Gunzoku, the civilian branch of the military. They wore uniforms but were civilians doing work such as diplomats, teachers (Takayama was a Gunzoku), etc and had distinctive rank/patches.

Phil, What causes you to think it's put-together? The saya is interesting with that second loop. It looks to me like something added to make it sling over the back. There are severl pictures of troops carrying their swords over their back.

Adam, I know almost nothing about horimono, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But I see this like any art form - you have craftsmen from one end of the spectrum to the other making swords just as any other profession. Maybe this guy wasn't the Picaso of the gunto world, but he was doing his best. The fittings are higher-end fittings (judging by the gorgeous tsuba), so the officer that bought this put some extra money into the piece. It is quite above the norm for officer gunto.

Hamish, I won't say yet, since you're waiting, but Dawson says the handgrip is always white. Is this like everything else - variations exist?

Wow Hamish! Dawson said there was a great amount of variation in these. Clearly he wasn’t kidding! Brian, would it be difficult to merge my posts into his thread? It’s much more significant than this one.

I never noticed the length variations in these until now (I can see them in Thomas' navy collection above now that I'm noticing!) and quality variations in the handle-work. Just got a Type 8 and a 19 in that batch of 4 gunto. The 19 is longer by almost 2 inches Type 8 full length - 35 1/2 Type 19 " " - 37 1/4 The acid-etched hamons vary quite a bit too. The one on the 19 actully attempted to have some art in it. The shop that made the 19 put more work into all the artwork on the handle. Comparisons below. I'll post these for sale soon. I'd love to keep one, but since i took that hit on the fake 98, I can't afford to keep them.

Duuuuude!

Sold the blade & habaki today, thanks for the suggestions guys! I'll post the koshirae along with a lone leather cover (that I know is legit) in the For Sale Section tomorrow.

Dave,I don't think they sell that way, though, I really don't know. I assume the items are sold by the way they were acquired. Some auctions are on commision, some are estate purchases.

My foray into buying/selling is coming with the expected learning curve experiences. Bought a set of 4 gunto at an auction site (one that I like and trust, though their clientele tend to drive the prices to the top of the market). The one that looked like, in the single photo, a civil sword remounted in combat saya - turned out to be a pure fake. GRRRRrrrrr! The Type 95, Type 8, and Type 19 are legit (I'll post the kyu on Kyu Corner soon!) After chatting with their Customer service rep, she pointed out that the label of the items all included the words "samurai style". It's a phrase used by her staff if they don't really know if it's legit or not. She assured me I am free to request more photos on items in the future that I want more info on, and gave me a $100 credit to my account. SO, I'll take a hit on that one. Hopefully I can sell it cheap as a "Wall Hanger" and cut my loss a tad. Interesting stamp on the nakago, though, that I'm pretty sure I've seen recently on another fake posted on the forum. Must be the same Chinese shop.

To Peter's point - all of us are like gunto variants. He wishes we could all be uniform and perfectly fit the mil-specs, but in reality, we are all variations off the design. We just aren't all nihonto experts that study smiths and schools. I learned early on that I had neither the interest or the time to get into that sort of depth. So I found I loved the WWII gunto, the stamps, and Mantetsu. So, if I ever come across a real, nice old nihonto, I'll be one of those "newbies" posting on Translation Assistance for the needed help. And I know there will be great folks there who will lend a hand and spoon-feed me! I also found I enjoy helping/coaching the newbies. That in itself is just another "calling" if you will. If there were no newbies, then the whole world of collecting would die when we all kick off. I have noticed more comments, lately, from names I've never noticed before, so I think the lock-down has generated more knowledgable input as well as newbies.

I like your summary of the situation Jareth.

Phil, Your gunto is the Contingency model, formulated from the Type 98 officer gunto. Originated in 1938, but didn't hit the streets until 1940. Often called the "late war" because they most commonly have '44 blades in them for some reason. You can read more about them here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/deflating-another-myth-type-3-army-officera-s-sword-expanded-version-584796/ The stamp, like Grey indicated means the blade was not made "in the traditional way", which could mean any of 8 different ways. The smith making it might very well have been skilled, but due to the demand of needing hundreds of thousands of swords for the war, most were made, even by skilled smiths, in non-traditional, ways that expidited mass production. Many skilled smiths would still produce a traditional blade now and then.

Sometimes you will see a single charactor, a "bonji" - BONJI (SANSCRIT) Some blades with have a single kanji, written in sanscrit, that have meaning or significance in Buddhist beliefs. They were likely added at the request of the customer, either during manufacture, or some sometime after. These are “normally” found on the blade, but can be found on the nakago.

Chris, Company grade (Lts & Capts) - Brown/Blue Field grade (Majs & Cols) - Brown/Red General grade - Brown/Red/Gold

Got another one on a Mantetsu. Fittings numbered "62" and the habaki had the "/I II" which would translate to 6 2.

It’s got marks but I cannot tell if they are stamps or not I’m fairly certain mine does.

It’s here David: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/30572-general-sword-tassel/?fromsearch=1

Dave,It needs to fit on the front of the tsuba for a Rinji (Type 3) tsuka.

Took me 2 years to get all the parts I needed to retrofit my dad's Mantetsu. Looks like I could have done it in 2 minutes with him!!!

Both good examples, Neil. My records have the Kanehisa as Ozawa Kanehisa. Is that the mei on that one?

Just bought one, and will post it in the For Sale forum. Got it from our famous Showa22 on fleabay, but the blade is legit. MOST of the parts are clearly original with matching assembly number 62. 2 of the smaller seppa might be added later. It's a pretty thing, and blade is a beauty. I believe, and have asked Showa22 for any clarification that he's aware of, the tsuka was rewrapped. The same' is very weathered and yellowed yet the ito is so new looking it doesn't appear to have ever been held in-hand - no sweat or dirt or wear. In a similar way, the saya has an odd blotchy, yet smooth, poor quality look, yet the metal fittings (except for the ashi) are near mint. It's a good looking piece, all legit WWII fittings, but the saya paint and weather ito makes me think this was in badly damaged fittings, and has been returned to it's glory by someone who cares about gunto/Mantetsu after the war. Spring 1943, Nanman stamped, WE 299 Of course, I could be wrong and it's all original.

This thought had occured to me as well. And I find it more likely than a G.I. grab or even a dealer swap around. Steve, I wish I could remember where I read the story, but it was someone's story of being in battle, grabbing a bare blade from a dead soldier (why he wouldn't have grabbed the saya too, I don't understand), and later before going home, finding a scabbard to stick his bare blade in. So I know it happened. But it seems so unlikely in these cases we're posting due to the closeness of the numbers. With serial numbers ranging from 1 to 200,000+ of the metal handled versions, it would be more likely for the GI to grab a 153XXX saya for his 56XXX blade, just due to randomness. When I mentioned factory/arsenal, I really meant as a replacement for a damaged saya, but after thinking about that, Ha, it's even more unlikely than the G.I. grab. So, to me, Rob's idea seems quite possible as a large unit in the field sustains causalties, battle damaged gear, etc, it would be possible that a buddy's saya, who died, is used to replace a guy's damaged one. It just seems too unlikely that a dealer could get his hands on enough 95s at one time to swap saya around on gunto with serial numbers that close. Now a collector like Shamsy or Stegel with 50 on-hand ... Ok, sure, it could happen!

Dang, typo, sorry - NO 273. A mind is a terrible thing to waste ..... sheesh.

Another: Blade - 145552; saya - 145680 (up for action at fleabay) 128 numbers apart - had to be done at the factory/arsenal.