Bruce Pennington

That's super, Trystan, thanks! You know, these blades made by RJT smiths directly for the Tokyo 1st Arsenal remind me of something Chris Bowen said, quoting one of the smiths - that blades made at the factory didn't get the star. It was blades made elsewhere and brought to the arsenal that were inspected and stamped with the star. Hmmmmm, maybe he was right. If so, these blades are likely gendaito.

By "Indonesian copy" Stephen was referring to the practice in occupied lands to make swords for both Japanese officers as well as their own collaboration forces. They aren't "fakes" as we are always on the lookout for.

Stephen, I agree, quite interesting! Could we see clear pics of the metal fittings? Also the whole nakago, clear shot, and the blade tip?

@MacTheWhopper - any chance the tsuba/seppa or other parts are stamped with the number "42"? If so, could we see photos? Thanks!

Good one Thomas! I have an oshigata in the Stamps document on this one, but his photo is better. I've added it to the doc.

Thanks Thomas! I have a Kapp book but it's not this one. Any chance of getting some phone photos of those pages for my files? I've logged them into the charts from your post, and can use screenshots of your post, if photos aren't likely, though.

Yes, I simply meant that I have 2 other Tokyo 1st Arsenal mei, with numbers, like that. BTW you're killing me with the Japanese only translations!!! GRRR. Either I have little time to look this stuff up, or like now, lots of time, but fuzzy-headed from a good strong beer on an empty stomach! So check my here. Your 2 are: Nobutaka Dec 1942 #47 Naotake Sep 1943 #453 ??? I seriously think I've jumbled that all up!

Thanks Thomas! Just goes to show that I need to be re-reading my reference books! There's bound to be stuff in them that meant nothing to me the first time I read them. I didn't have this one in the files, but now I do! On that note, I do have two other: 1943, Jun Nobutake (RJT) – Tokyo 1st 283 Star Ammad, NMB RS 1943, Jun Nobutake (RJT) – Tokyo 1st 218 Star Jim Manley, NMB [Second blade added in Edit]

Thanks Bojan! Yours is one of a growing list of gunto with numbers on the fittings that don't match the number stamped on the blade. They support the concept that then stamped numbers are not fitting-shop numbers, but rather an Army inspector/tracking/serial number of some sort.

Well, I can attest that the gunto is not a fake. There are others here who are more expert at that like @Stegel and @Shamsy, but it's legit.

Ah, much better pics ... definitely "86" Thanks Daniel!

That's a great provenance which fits what we've been discussing for a long time about this style gunto. I find the yellow cord interesting too, as I believe I've seen a few of these. Wondering now if it was a color used by collaboration forces.

Thanks, looks to be painted on to me. Matches the 2" 二二" you can see on the chuso.

Looks like a nice Kaigunto, Steve. Can you give a clear pic of the date? Looks like Showa 10 7, if I'm seeing it right, which is 1942. Minor point.

Paul, Quite an interesting story. I have not seen this on 95s before, but I recall seeing an officer sword or 2 with numbers put on by the Japanese personnel working with the Occupation forces, labeling swords for storage or disposal. I think it was at a navy base?

Just watched it Steve, thanks for the recommendation! The Pied Piper of Saipan really pulled off something special. He claimed that he talked in 1,500 troops and civilians. A critic claimed it was half that much ..... Ha! so 750? Don't know any other guys who could claim that! The movie made him look much older than his 18 years of age. One scene with a circle of officers around a general. One of the guys had a leather-covered saya ... I think it was @16k's Mantetsu!!!!

Oh, sorry, you were asking @Ganko, not me! Interested to hear his reply, too.

Here's the only Feb '42 I have. I don't see a Mar '42: 1942, Feb Akihisa (RJT) 松 542 RS star Trotter Survey

After reading a link posted by @Kiipu on Warrelics, I thought I'd post this here (it's on the Mantetsu Survey thread). @IJASWORDS gave us this copy of a letter explaining the gathering of blades by the army. The author claims that Seki blades sold to the military were gathered in a warehouse and stamped with either the Showa or Anchor. It's significant, because if accurate, it makes the Showa stamp an Army stamp, not a civil stamp. Thoughts?

Many smiths sold blades to the open market as well as to the military. So not unusual at all. Though not dated, the large Seki stamp puts your blade, most likely in 1942. They have been found in the range of 1940-1944, so those dates are possible too, but the massive majority of the dated blades we've found with this stamp are dated 1942.

Jake, Thanks for the pics of your gunto. Looks like it has some decent fittings too. You'll really enjoy it! You can read all about the Mantetsu sword in an article compiled by @16k, @Kiipu, and I. I checked and we haven't posted it in the Member Articles section yet (I'll have to see about that!), but I'm attaching it. It summarizes the info available from both a book and the Ohmura Website Mantetsu pages. and adds new discoveries we've all made in our investigation into the whole subject. Thomas is referring to the fact that Mantetsu used a Japanese poetic numbering system, called I RO HA, in numbering their blades. Similar to our using "A 1-100, B 1-100, C 1-100, etc". I'm attaching the chart that shows the flow. The chart only shows the lowest number of each kana, and doesn't include every blade in our survey. Serial Numbers Plotted in Iroha order (only 1st number of each group) KANJI 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 I 　イ 376-S RO　ロ 75-S HA　ハ 24-A NI　ニ 57-A HO　ホ 123-W 546-S HE　ヘ to　と 41-S CHI チ 66-S RI　リ 108-S NU　ヌ 65-A RU　ル 16-A wO　ヲ 433-S WA　ワ 20-S 158-S KA　カ 89-S YO　ヨ 11 TA　タ 181-S RE　レ 6-S SO　ソ 66-S TSU ツ 198-S NE　ネ 144-s NA　ナ 5-S RA　ラ 7-S MU　ム 87-S U 　ウ 20-S WI　ヰ NO　ノ 34-S O 　オ KU　ク 326-S YA　ヤ 79-A 246-W 957-S MA　マ 360-S KE　ケ 731-S FU　フ 624-S KO　コ 115-S E 　エ 537-S TE　テ 71-S A 　ア 105-S SA　サ 1-S KI　キ 144-S YU　ユ 479-S ME　メ 87-S MI　ミ 206-S SHI シ 304-S WE　ヱ 299-S HI　ヒ 41-S 1155-S MO　モ 104-S SE　セ 1143-S SU　ス 219-S I (イ) 556-S i 　い 622-S S - Spring R - Summer A - Autumn W - Winter The serial numbering began with English letters in 1938 and continued through 1940, overlapping the start of katakana in 1939. 1944 ended with an overlap of the first katakana イ , but in parentheses (イ). 1945 began with the first letter い , but in hiragana. MANTETSU DISCOVERIES.pdf

Seems to me there aren’t a whole lot of sellers on eBay that I actually know much about Japanese swords. Of course there are some out there, but a lot of them don’t seem to know what they’re really talking about.

I’ve never had stains that big, but I have plenty of black permanent stains on some of my blades. I haven’t found anything to get it out. Maybe yours is on the surface?

Concerning the question of the orientation of numbers on the nakago of non-star RJT blades, Thomas was correct in that the 1941 blades are oriented with the mune down, cutting edge up like this: While the 1942 and later blades are oriented with the mune up, cutting edge down like this: While my database is still quite small, I found this to be true, with rare exception. All star-stamped blades were marked with the mune at the top. But the timing of the switch seems to also coincide with the official take-over of Japanese blade production by the Army in 1942. So the reason may simply be due to that. Also, the idea of the numbers being a Rinji serial system could have merit as the massive majority of the numbered blades in the survey are in RS mounts, however I found 5 numbered blades in Type 98 mounts and a few others with only oshigata to go by, but showing only 1 ana. So, I don't think the evidence is very strong to support the idea, though, again, certainly possible. Number Layout (RJT, no star) 1941, Jul Munetoshi 106 Bottom RS 1941, Dec Akihisa 566 Bottom RS 1941, Dec Tomomaru 535 Bottom RS 1941, Dec Tomomary 621 Bottom RS 1942, Apr Masakazu 1129 Top RS 1942, May Kanetsugu 1220 Top RS 1942, May Ryuu 1301 Top RS 1943, Jan Shigemasa 2118 Top Slough, no 2nd ana 1944 Kanemitsu 24 Horizontal, tip up RS Non-RJT 1943, Jan Katsumasa 168 Bottom T98 1944, Oct Kanetsuna 506 Vertical RS 1944, Dec Katsumasa 254 Bottom, above ana Unknown fittings Type 95, Late Jensen Arsenal 1551 Bottom Type 95, Late Jensen Arsenal 260 Bottom

Interesting point Thomas. A quick scan shows that most blades stamped with numbers on the mune aren't star-stamped, although I have 2 in 1944 with stars and mune numbers, but that fits your point about "early" blades not having them. Looks like the practice began in 1942, which coincides with the Army assuming control of sword production. 1944, Jun Masakuni (RJT) – Osaka 75 on mune Star Volker62, NMB RS 1944, Jul Tomonari (RJT) – Kobe Hyogo 24 on mune Star