Leaderboard

Hi, i got the result back. It passed Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon and attributed as 1st generation Nobukuni. Dealer said it possibly to go for Juyo certificate. what do you think of the unexpected result?

Japanese Art Motives by Maude Rex Allen 1917 "The Shippo or seven precious things are; gold,silver, coral, crystal,agate, and pearl. The list varies, and the older records include amber, tortoise-shell, and mother-of-pearl. The Japanese term for enamels of all kinds is Shippo; the word is probably of Chinese origin, and goes back to a time when amber, and tortoise-shell, mother-of-pearl, coral, agate, rock-crystal, and lapis lazuli were used as inlays. The shippo form is oval, like a flattened grain of rice, or like the small metal cells which, when filled with enamel, form the basis of much of the cloissonne' work. This simple form has been varied and developed into beautiful arabesque and diaper designs. There is far more in this term shippo than can be grasped by us, because perhaps this mystic number seven is applied and made use of to express in its summing up what cannot be expressed by any other medium. Seven precious things to them are like the seven precious colors and the seven separate notes of music, by whose means all the glorious art of the world has found expression and interpretation." Shippo BY THE WAY is given as one of the treasures filling the Takara-bune along with the seven lucky gods...

Arguments and drama generate clicks. That's why reality TV is popular. This forum is supposed to be about education and evidence over entertainment. You seem remarkably proud of the attention you've generated, but views are not validation. If they were, every conspiracy theory on the internet would become historical fact. You've still failed to produce what actually matters: period documentation, contemporary references, or credible scholarship or experts supporting your claims of these partial shippo designs representing constellations. Instead, we're expected to accept, "It looks similar, therefore it must be connected. Now it’s up to you to prove me wrong! But why bother because my opinion insulates me from accepting anything else anyway! Onward!". A hypothesis without evidence remains a hypothesis, no matter how many times it's repeated. Pattern similarities may be interesting, but it’s not proof. What's disappointing is that there is a genuinely interesting discussion to be had about star motifs, casting methods, and other manufacturing techniques. Instead, it's been buried beneath circular arguments that never move beyond personal interpretation because no supporting evidence ever materializes. Likely because it’s not there, and the suggestion that it ever was is only coming from one stubborn individual. The real casualty isn't your reputation, it's the quality of discussion on this forum. New collectors come here expecting to learn history, not watch unsupported theories get repeated until they sound familiar. I imagine that serious researchers don't avoid these threads because they're afraid of debate; they avoid them because debate without evidence is a waste of time and engaging in conspiracy theories damages this hobby and real historical study. If your goal is historical understanding, then produce historical evidence. If your goal is engagement, congratulations, you've succeeded. Just don't confuse one with the other. Honestly, I’d lock or delete that casting thread if it were up to me. Start a new one with more education and facts, and less speculation and bickering. -Sam

Hi all, I have been working with the hosts to identify the slowness and forum downtime, and at the same time noticed that the subscriptions link above is down. After some investigation, there is a possibility that there has been some hammering of certain processes through the subscriptions system, possibly an attack or something else. It seems as though certain blocks on processes may have brought the load down significantly, and I would like feedback on the speed and loading issues over the next day or 2...but there is a possibility I need to reconfigure some stuff and it seems that the subscriptions link is down. This is of course a huge concern for fund raising, as we have been going down in contributions lately and without a method of adding subscriptions, forum bills will rapidly become a problem. As a temporary solution, I am going to post the details of the various subscriptions here, and if anyone wants to take a Gold membership, I ask that you do the payment via Paypal manually, with a note of your username and the subscription that you are choosing to take or renew. I will then manually add that subscription to your username, or extend your membership by that period. I apologize for this, but it is temporary until I figure it out. Payments can be done by going to https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/japaneseswords Put a note of your username and chosen membership. Or pm me that you have paid and your choice. I really appreciate the support, and of course as always they are not compulsory, but are hugely appreciated. The Gold Memberships are as follows: Gold Tier Membership : $6 month to month, $30 for 6 months, or $60 for 12 Months. Members who upgrade to Gold Membership enjoy the following benefits: Access to exclusive themes not available to regular members Up to 60 Posts per day instead of 25 Private message limit of 500 messages (Regular members 100) Ability to edit your own posts for 14 days instead of 6 hours Ability to create polls Can view who reacted to a post and what reaction they gave Allowed to use a commercial link in your signature Can use search function with only 10 second delay between searches instead of 20 secs Can upload 10 attachments per post 7.5 Meg per post upload limit instead of 3MB Can use an image in signature (800x100px) Can have 2 links in signature Can send messages to someone even if their inbox is full 2.5 Gig total attachment storage instead of 1.5 Gigs More reactions allowed Support the forum NMB Dealers Staus: You have your own sub forum/section Dealer status comes with the following benefits: Own section of the forum that you can use as your own mini-store or display area for commerce. Ability to moderate all content in your section (along with current NMB moderators) This means you can add, delete and edit all posts indefinitely. You can lock topics, remove replies and edit descriptions or pricing. You have control over your section and what is posted there. You can control replies to your posts. Delete them or hide them. Lock the topic if you are only showing items. Post new item when they arrive, delete at any point or edit the price or description. Your own forum means you have maximum visibility to your customers and can treat your section like a mini webstore. $10 a month is easily affordable even to the smallest seller. 12 Month plan renews automatically if paid via Paypal. ONLY to be used for commercial listings. This is not a discussion area and debates or discussion should be limited to questions about items for sale or commerce. The $120 annual fee covers your store listing in the Dealer Section and the above benefits. Contributions on successful sale are (like regular listings) completely voluntary but always appreciated.. PLUS all the benefits of Gold Membership ($60 value) Payments to https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/japaneseswords Thank you all, as always.

One thing I have learnt about the Nihonto game is time is fluid and one year becomes three very quickly as you get other things done and as the status rises. In for a penny, in for a pound. Sounds like you have an excellent blade, so try for Juyo whilst it is still in Japan and see what happens. You never know. And you will always wonder if you don't. Regardless, well done bud! This is an excellent result!

My own knowledge? To be clear, I don't know if there's a connection or not. I don't have knowledge on this subject, and I would actually love to learn; even if your theory were to be correct! But to learn anything, I need some source material, period document, something published, maybe nbthk papers or older papers, or expert input that corroborates your theories. The reason I may seem frustrated, is because members have been begging for such material from you for what feels like a long time now across discussions. The repeated failure to produce such material and push the idea anyway turns what was a completely reasonable hypothosis into what now seems like a conspiracy theory. I will not lock your threads. I wont do any moderator actions because i'm clearly involved, and my judgement would be viewed as being compromised. I'm just another member trying to learn about fittings, and getting lost down these rabbit holes to nowhere. -Sam

Hi There. I am Fred To celebrate the opening of my online store, I am offering this Wakizashi with its Koshirae at a discounted price. This blade is a Muromachi period Wakizashi signed: Nōshū no jū Kanetsugu (濃州之住兼辻). It is in very good condition. Overall length: 55.1 cm / 21.65 inches Price: €1,300 / $1,500 + shipping (€60 / $70 USD) For full details and more pictures of the blade, please click on the first photo or the link above. Payment: Bank transfer (wire transfer) within the EU. Customs duties and import taxes are not included in the price. The blade is located in Japan. Please allow about 3 weeks to obtain the necessary export papers. Airmail shipping available for the USA, Germany, and France. Surface (boat) shipping: Available for other countries (takes around 3 months). Note: I cannot ship blades to Belgium, Canada, or Australia. If you are interested, please contact me by message. And when you have some time, feel free to check out my website: edoantiques.com. I will be adding new pieces regularly. Best regards, Fred https://edoantiques.com/product/wakizashi-noshu-no-ju-kanetsuji/

@Spartancrest @Jesta @Scogg @Bugyotsuji thank you all very much! I do have to jump on the same conclusion that this set is indeed what you all suggesting it is. Very interesting about the Takeda clan four diamonds embellished on it and sitting right on the aori side flaps too. I was able to find a couple of sets of Takeda clan Menuki and interestingly enough the set I “discovered” on my old Wakizashi have a very similar style. Compared to the examples I’ve seen online they have the same detailing down to the small lines the smith made. Not saying they are really a Takeda clan samurai’s item, but they sure look like they could be especially from doing some research Takeda Shingen was known for his Calvary forces and tactics. I said discovered the menuki because they were/ are so dirty that until I removed them from the wrap and started to soak them in soapy water and just scrubbing lightly once in a while with a soft toothbrush there was very little detail to go off of. Quite a lot of grime and possibly pine resin has been lifting off just from the soapy water. The wrap on the handle was in very poor condition and it was about to break in a couple places. It was loose as well, but the wrap was done in kusune. I believe some of that transfered onto the menuki and has collected quite a bit of gunk and grime. The Kusune wrap while unwrapping it was interesting as the wrapping broke and crumbled like small twigs while taking it off. Very highly degraded and brittle.

My huge thanks go out to those members who have responded with renewal memberships etc. I really appreciate it. Having a slight glitch extending the subscription dates, but will make sure those who extended don't expire and the membership is actioned for the later date. Thanks guys, couldn't do any of this without you.

And it would be very cool to have a sword that's both Yushu-to and Juyo token; especially if they're two different attributions! Talk about a great conversation piece.

These values are from the Toko Taikan, where listed Gendai smiths all start at one million yen. Kanemichi made good Gendai during the 30's, after that he appeared to have focused more on making Showato for the war effort and quality Gendaito are far less common.

Hi Keith, welcome to NMB. Firstly the tsuba images are upside down - even for us in the Southern hemisphere The first example you show may well be a cast copy and not of really any value as such - but that doesn't mean other people don't try to sell them at "inflated" prices this one also has some missing tail feathers on the Hō-ō bird [phoenix] https://www.ebay.com/itm/331466396417 US $450.00 is way too much! See also https://www.kyoto-yakata.net/sale/65124/ which seems to be a carved piece and https://www.choshuya.co.jp/koshiraeyokanagu/鳳凰図透鍔（鐔）　無銘/拵用金具 which is a much finer example. The second piece looks like a thicker version of this one posted back in 2019 https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/28384-tsuba-question/ I would check the second one with a magnet, the colour looks like a copper alloy [Sentoku?] - it may just be the lighting? The third is a little too dark to see any pattern but it may be a rough hammered piece Tembo or Saotome type?

As a starter price, $80~$100 sounds about right. She knows her oats! Tsuba will always be a gamble, but each one will teach you something, helping you develop an eye for a) what you like personally, and b) what is universally sought after and why.

First two off the ranks: https://www.jgauction.com/auction/261-fine-Japanese-art/lot-1-koto-katana/ - Juyo 25.7M YEN for Katana before taxes and shipping (Must be a nice Koshirae) https://nihontowatch.com/listing/616 - 7.7M YEN for a Tachi before taxes and shipping. https://www.jgauction.com/auction/261-fine-Japanese-art/lot-4-koto-katana/ - TH for 20.2M YEN before taxes and shipping. https://nihontowatch.com/listing/491926 - Juyo for 25M YEN before taxes and shipping. These kids are having a laugh - whilst I would love for prices to start rising like this across the board you cannot pull this kind of stunt without harming the industry - without the confidence of knowing you can sell these blades at these prices it just makes the whole industry look bad as ultimately none of these blades will sell at these insanely elevated prices giving the impression that the whole market is dead. This is not how you stir up excitement or demand. This is how you make people ignore it. Unless of course they fake all the sales and so set a new price benchmark - it has happened before, look up Heritage Auctions and the original Unboxed Nintendo Mario game. Their fake sale to themselves started a new collecting mania. Perhaps that is their plan?

Thanks for thinking of me! For the monograph in the download section, unfortunately no. My current goal is to collect each variation and personally take my own photographs. They have to be my own taken photos for me to have legal rights over the images. So that part is all on-me to source the remaining variations, photograph them, and populate my document with 100% self taken photos. I am about 80% of the way complete with this part of the project, but I still need Variation 6, 7, and 9. (of course those are the three that are hardest to find ). That said, there are a couple mysteries I'm trying to get to the bottom of, that I need more data for. That means swords serial numbers, stamps, and the features in question shown. 1. MENUKI... When looking at the cast menuki flowers and the stamen specifically, some have engraved stamen details (left), while others have raised stamen details (right). I'd love to gather more data on this, and see if I can determine which subcontractors/arsenals utilized each respective type, and figure out if/when changes were made to the stamen. This is a feature that can be seen on officers swords too, something I'm not sure if anyone knows very much about. It's a weird one, and a very fine detail! 2. BRASS TSUBA... There appears to be at least 2 different types of brass tsuba that were fitted onto Type 95 swords. One has a wider opening with a notch that corresponds to the shape of the rim (see below, tsuba on the left). While the other has a more narrow opening that is more cleanly "oval" or "pill" shaped (see below, tsuba on the right). I've been gathering data on both these features, and am making some progress and loose theories. But the rhyme or reason and who used what/when still alludes me. My sample size is just too small. All the best, -Sam

The tassel is really bizarre! I've never seen one that short before. Does it look like it was made that way? Or was it cut/broken and one end reinserted? Pull the slider up to see if the straps go directly into the tassel heads. Can you see a stitch holding one end to the other? The reference books all the all-brown army tassel a "late war" tassel, however due to a recent Uniform regulation discovery, we now know it was used by the civil branch of the military call Gunzoku. They wore similar looking uniforms and performed jobs like maintenance, administration, teaching, etc. @PNSSHOGUN - John, one for the record books!

As Dale did above, placing them the right way around, point of the central triangle upwards, tri-lobe side hole to the right, but on a plain dark background under neutral lighting or lighting which allows a sense of the actual metal to show.

Not sure this will be of any help in the context of a naval dirk, but: https://jisho.org/search/蘭

Could this extravagant pricing be an attempt to take advantage of the draconian shipping restrictions of nihonto into the UK? There must be non-savvy local buyers with deep pockets gagging to buy a Juyo or TH with a big name attribution. It will be interesting to see if these lots get any nibbles.

The Saya couldn’t be made in time before the Shinsa , so they sent it off for Shinsa and continue once it back. Which is about now. But i’m not sure about going for Juyo. Seem like another year at least.

Interesting call, but a very good result regardless. Well done! An attribution to Shodai Nobukuni suggests that the NBTHK has a higher opinion of the jigane than the NTHK-NPO, while the latter were more impressed by the activities around the hamon and the presence of nagare. I agree with the dealer's opinion that this is worth a shot at Juyo; I wouldn't be too surprised to see it change attribution again if it passes, since there's apparently enough evidence to lean towards either Yamashiro or Yamato influence. Some information here about the complexities around the first two generations of Nobukuni: https://nihontoclub.com/schools/YamashiroNobukuni

https://www.samuraisword.com/about-swords/sword-and-smiths-rating-systems/ The Toko Taikan by the late Dr. Tokuno contains a value system based on the Japanese yen. They are given in “man yen”, which are increments of 10,000 yen and are considered to represent the value of a “perfect” sword by the smith; one that is ubu and unaltered, signed, in good polish and made at the height of the smith’s career. Toko Taikan ratings generally tend to be overly optimistic – except at the top end, where they are somewhat pessimistic (at least compared to recent market rates). For example, the best work of a random 2 million yen gendai tosho in pristine condition is unlikely to sell for anywhere near 2 million yen, whereas a pristine, signed, ubu work of Awataguchi Yoshimitsu would fetch far in excess of 30 million yen, if you could even put a price to such a thing.

There is no way it is 2 million yen.

Hi Nick Something that was said about Peter in his heyday was "He would go out on Christmas Day during a blizzard with a thousand pound in his pocket to buy a sword". That summed him up. He certainly had his finger on the pulse in the collecting world and had the knack of searching out "fresh to the market" pieces. My first contact with him was in the late sixties. I was running an advert in the Exchange & Mart with a box number. I gave no contact details. It was published each Thursday and yet prior to publication on the Wednesday he telephoned me on my number which was ex-directory. He introduced himself and offered to sell me some swords. How he did it I don't know but he had tremendous drive and determination. I thought he was a top dealer.

That bottom one above says Hokuto Shichisei.(The dragon’s tail probably indicating Polaris the Pole star.) Long lusted over this Sendai matchlock in Sawada Taira’s collection. Close-up

Hey guys, I have a pair of Menuki that im trying to learn more about, I believe they have a cane, a sash and the item looks like a sideways pouch to me, but it doesn’t seem positioned right to be a pouch. Can anyone identify the items represented on these Menuki? I did the magnet test on these and they are non magnetic. These are covered in oil, dirt and grime. I also believe they are coated in a dark brown wax. At someone’s point in the past the wrap of the handle was heavily coated in a brown or black waxy substance. After I removed the wrap that was clearly severely frayed to get the menuki I discovered someone went to town with the stuff. I’m also trying to lightly clean them with mild soapy water and soft tooth brush. A ridiculous amount of gunk and grime has come off these I’d like to get them cleaned to rewrap the handle. Thanks guys

Quoting Paul ” So I have had a National Treasure Swords of Japan book ready to go for 10+ years. The stumbling block is the cost of the using all the existing photography for all the blades, plus koshirae, plus National Treasure Koshirae. Crowding funding incurs more expense via return gifts and 20% to the crowdfunding company, so we are thinking of basing it on pre-orders. The book is not going to be cheap as it is a large volume of the very best swords and koshirae in Japan. At this stage, we are estimating the cost of the book to be approximately 100~120 USD. Please leave a 'Yes' in the comments, if you would be willing to pre-order. Please don't just click 'like', as it won't be counted. Pre-orders will also have the option to be signed by me. *I probably need about 1000 yes's for a chance for this to become a reality.* If you share this post, please ask your followers to put their 'yes' directly on this thread.”

….many imported for sale….from Japan?? https://www.jgauction.com/auction/261-fine-Japanese-art/

Without a doubt they are whalefishing. The prestige of the auction house name resonates for people unconnected to the Japanese market, among other nuances mentioned in the thread I would bet. Same with prestigious American auction houses, like for example I believe there were quite a few overpriced pieces here: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2025/important-Japanese-swords-and-armour-from-the-paul-l-davidson-collection?lotFilter=AllLots Going back to Tsuruta's blogs, if they are to be believed at face value, it seems good swords are becoming harder and harder to come by, but I am sure that is cyclical as old collections release their holdings. But I have to believe that over time the prices will naturally rise as some of these swords are lost or damaged to bad stewards, stolen, destroyed by family inheritors that don't care or know of what they have etc. The existing pool becomes smaller and the general Japan craze continues to sweep the world, statistically putting more eyes and money into swords as people want a piece of a culture they admire.

Well, mine is signed so it is not much of an issue - Hizen Yoshifusa (Shodai Tadayoshi student and daisaku/mei artisan for him).

Definitely would be awesome to have for this one! Also, it would be interesting to see a database of blades with dual Yushu / Juyo rankings. I actually have one of these also, rated "◎ Yushu-saku" which is second highest Yushu rank. @Jussi Ekholm you don't have something like this in your wealth of data mining do you?

Just a feeling but I kind of agree, e.g. from John’s link above:

Congratulations. That is indeed an interesting attribution. Love that Sugata.

It passed Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon attributed as 1st Generation Nobukuni.

Never sold.

The Sadakatsu was also offered for sale at Sotheby's 18 months ago with a 20-30k estimate. Can't see if it sold. https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2024/art-of-Japan/a-katana-signed-osaka-ju-gassan-sadakatsu-kinsaku

I think the shape was intended as Kobushi-gata and the indent was intentional - the crescent may have been so the guard can be used as a Kake to stop the sword rolling when there is no stand for the sword? This one has an indented section where the sukashi is, but the rest of the shape won't work for keeping the sword oriented blade upwards.

A similarly signed Terukado in Imamura Oshigata. This kind of Soe-Mei by Terukado is recorded in many Meikan. This paper confirmed my initial guess that this is about Oroshigane (卸し鉄, 下 can be read as Oroshu/下ろし, 金 is 鉄/Kane), so this might reads more like Jigane Oroshi (wo) Motte. Oroshigane, by definition, is the process of adjusting the carbon content of the otherwise unusable iron ingredient, oftentime implies using pre-Edo old iron, when used in Jigane (地金), this process translates to unusual patterns...... At least this is how I understand it, but I've never really fully read the Scientific Study on Nihonto by Tawara Kuniichi Sensei, which emphasizes heavily on this subject. It's so long and so technical......

A clamshell with Ryūgū Jō inside. Back Front Hoping this has linked your stories together, Jake!

PS This story of Urashima Taro continues to fascinate me and over the years I have collected objects that reflect it. Tamatebako Reverse Shinkiro

I have very similar tsuba. 7 x 6.7 x 0.7 . Also, another similar design was attributed to Echizen Myochin.

So I received this tsuba and although it seems to have been hastily made, there are some elements I still enjoy. As for the coating, its definitely there, and water does bead up and roll right off without leaving any residue @Tim Evans. Im curious about the damage present and what could have caused it. To me, it looks like the iron was overheated and melted. Silver can do something similar under the right conditions, but ferrous metals could be completely different in that regard. What do you think @ROKUJURO My camera is new and im still fine tuning the settings, but this thing was a real pain to get good photos of, mostly because of the glossy surface. Might try some low light pictures and see if they turn out any better. The last thing is the colors underneath the coating. It goes from a dark patina to a light brown, hopefully it's visible in my poor pics. Is this something common to see when tsuba have been treated with wax, urushi....etc?

All from the same seller - they look like top quality pieces. https://www.jauce.com/auction/x1235901241 It is a shame there is some damage - fantastic work. https://www.jauce.com/auction/h1235911663 https://www.jauce.com/auction/n1235910668

Indeed, I was less thinking about the names, and more considering the stars themselves. Why stop or start where our constellations stop or start? Constellations are surrounded by other stars, are they not? Although, I concede, it does look like the Big Dipper was at least recognized the same as how we see it. Image below from linked article. https://www.cultureandcosmos.org/pdfs/10/15_Meri_Arichi.pdf

…..and although I am no astronomer, it would seem that the NBTHK are wrong in identifying the constellation on the tsuba shown by @MauroP as being the big dipper. It looks exactly like the “Little Dipper” to me……..with the Ken roughly where the pole star would be expected.

I know my collecting and appreciation is crazy niche focused. This Yosōzaemon Sukesada naginata was probably my favorite item alongside tha absolutely superb Ō-Kanehira tachi at Tokyo National Museum this summer (including the Maeda exhibition). To me none of the 3 Masamune or 2 Gō on display came anywhere close to this naginata. Well I have to admit the Kotegiri Masamune is very nice sword. I do genuinely think that for most people this particular item does not probably evoke any strong feelings at all. However I am extremely happy TNM always has a naginata on display on 2nd floor. On my visits over the years I have seen many incredible naginata they have in their collection.

My pleasure @The Blacksmith Russ! Thank you very much for the kind words. I still consider it a "work in progress". For what it's worth, and for those interested. Currently I am collecting each variation so that I can take more standardized "professional" looking photographs. Hope to update the document to the "Second Edition" around its 1 year anniversary. -Sam Here's a little sneak peak of the "work in progress". Had to shrink file size for this post, and I am still fine tuning stuff

If not in hurry and can spend extra cash I would put it to Hozon & Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa. I only have the 1st NTHK book but I know there are at least 12 NTHK Yushu swords that have been also been papered by NBTHK. In the worst case scenario if the NBTHK attribution would be much "lower" nobody would need to know it was sent to their shinsa... But I think it seems like a nice sword and as it is NTHK Yushu it shouldn't get too bad attribution I'd guess.