Jump to content

Need help can anyone read this mei?

Yuradneprov

By Yuradneprov
in Nihonto

 Share

Recommended Posts

Vermithrax16 Grand Master

Vermithrax16

Posted
Posted

Looks very crude, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I don't know if that particular date and smith has any allure of being falsified.

Every single maker has a gimei possibility approaching 100%. If there is one thing I want people to understand, it is that fact. Obscure? One off guy from a school? Unimportant era, no matter. I have seen them for everything.

 

Agree with Ed, did some comps and it's not a mei match. Suriage shinshinto sword is also a negative. Sword may well be nice, but I cannot tell from the limited pics.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Yuradneprov Collaborator

Yuradneprov

Posted
  • Author
Posted

To be honest with you ed and Jeremiah I did my due diligence and sadahide mostly signed as masatsugu and if you look at the mei on most of his swords and then look at the mei on the sword I listed it's a perfect match not saying that it's official yet but I'm very confident that it's the real deal. But I appreciate the comments also if you could would be nice to show what discrepancies your talking about at least a link or reference.

 

Yura dneprov

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ed Veteran

Ed

Posted
Posted
To be honest with you ed and Jeremiah I did my due diligence. I'm very confident that it's the real deal.

If that is the case, why did you ask? You already knew the maker and sounds like your mind is made up, in which case there was no reason for me or others to waste our time!  It would have been just as productive and less dishonest to have simply asked for second opinions in the beginning.

 

sadahide mostly signed as masatsugu

Nothing is set in stone, nor do I claim to have seen every shoshin example.

With that said, I have never seen a known good example of Sadhide signing Masatsugu.

 

My understanding is that it was Sandai Masahide, the son of Sadahide (nidai Masahide), who signed Masatsugu.  

 

If you have conclusive information of Sadhide signing  Masatsugu, I would be interested in seeing it. 

 

if you could would be nice to show what discrepancies your talking about at least a link or reference.

I have a better idea.  Why don't you show your references, which validate your opinion and confidence. 

 

Having viewed all three generational mei, I stand by my call of gimei.

 

not saying that it's official yet

Do let us know how that works out for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ed Veteran

Ed

Posted
Posted

https://yuhindo.com/...nshi-masatsugu/

This is states what I mentioned earlier and if you compasre the handwriting they are identical even the etching in each kanji almost as if he didn't have a steady hand

I don't want to come across as rude but I don't know what you read or what you are looking at.

 

First, Darcy's write up states exactly what I told you previously:  Suishinshi Masatsugu was the third generation Masahide.

He (Masatsugu) did not use the mei Sadhide or Masahide.

 

Second, if you were going to provide an example which was used to base your rationale, it should have been one signed with the same mei your sword is signed; Suikanshi Sadahide, not Masatsugu.

 

Third, I must disagree with your comparison of the characters or "handwriting".  In my opinion they look nothing alike.

 

From what I can see the sword looks like a nice sword, but that doesn't make the mei legit. 

 

Not much more to discuss unless you have better examples to provide.   

 

Once you send this sword to shinsa, update us here with the results.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Yuradneprov Collaborator

Yuradneprov

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Like I said please provide references to the information you are stating otherwise I don't mean to be rude but doesnt mean anything unless you have something to back up what you are saying. Second it's completely rational to show you the mei of masatsugu because it's the same wordsmith his writing isn't going to change just because he is using a different name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Vermithrax16 Grand Master

Vermithrax16

Posted
Posted
Well I was just gonna leave this one be but I happen to have nothing else to do tonight, so I'll give it a go.

 

First order of discussion: Masatsugu did not sign as Sadahide. Masatsugu is NOT Sadahide. This is documented in all meikan works (Sesko Shinshinto Meikan, Fujishiro, etc) as well as Markus Sesko's Japanese Swordsmiths A-Z. Darcy covers this as well in the very Yuhindo sword that was linked:

 

"Masahide before he died changed his name to Amahide, but after he died his son Sadahide chose to take up the name Masahide as the second generation head master of the school. Though he did not achieve the levels of skill of his father, he was an excellent swordsmith and ranked Jo-saku. Sadahide did not enjoy a long period of work under the name Masahide as he died within a year of his father's death, leaving his young son Kawabe Hokushi to inherit the school. Possibly because of the tragic early death of his father after changing his name to Masahide, the third generation Suishinshi master never took on the Masahide name but instead made swords as Masatsugu."

 

Family tree for clarity on the lineage: Masahide 1st ~~~~~ Sadahide, changed name to Masahide 2nd after death of 1st ~~~~~~~~ Masatsugu

post-4009-0-40836500-1569546446_thumb.jpg

 

Are there other references that ascribe Masatsugu as the same smith as Sadahide? 

 

Here is a mei comp drawn from the Yuhindo link, the Aoi confusing joint work link, and two examples from Sesko Shinshinto Meikan. Other references agree with the Sesko examples, but I am not snapping pics of books and all that tonight:

post-4009-0-66369700-1569546513_thumb.jpg

 

There is nothing similar for the NMB mei in question to the examples shown. I was not taught to count strokes etc, just to look and get a feel for the mei. I can see nothing remotely the same. There are other clues, but I am not going to give it all away right here. 

 

But as always, submit to shinsa and report back. In this study no one has every answer, always glad to be proven that I have overlooked something. Happens about every week.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ed Veteran

Ed

Posted
Posted
Like I said please provide references to the information you are stating otherwise I don't mean to be rude but doesnt mean anything unless you have something to back up what you are saying. 

 

Well Jeremiah beat me to it, but there you go.  Hopefully you can see that your swords mei looks nothing like the shoshin examples.

 

Second it's completely rational to show you the mei of masatsugu because it's the same wordsmith his writing isn't going to change just because he is using a different name.

No, it is not.  They are NOT the same smith.  :bang:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...