Seeking translation and comments about this Tanto

[Harry]

This is a recent addition. Most of what I know about it comes from the seller who described the Mei as "Yamashiro Koku Seitin Jyuu Umetada Myoujyu Saku Kanei 3 year". And he thought it ~395 years old. I've included a screenshot from the sword smith DB which is the closest match I can find based on name. Any help with the translation is much appreciated. The Fuchi, Kashira, Menuki set are Shakudou with fine minute gold highlights. I invite comments. TIA!

 

Harry

[Ray Singer]

The discovery of an authentic, signed Umetada Myoju tanto would be a truly remarkable find. He was considered to be one of the most important figures in Japanese sword history, from any time period. It is unfortunately not likely though that this one is authentic.

[Harry]

Thanks Ray. I did not know that. The maker wasn't a consideration in purchasing it. I just like the knife and thought it was authentic. I am a newbie though and could easily be completely wrong about it. If so, I hope someone will let me know. No need to hold back.

[Rivkin]

The signature is written without any elegance and with an uncertain hand, and also some really weird cutout made in the nakago just above it.

I would say not only the signature is bad, but also the nakago is essentially damaged in this appearance.

 

Kirill R.

[Bazza]

Maybe someone at some time thought it the real deal.  The habaki especially looks VERY interesting and I'm guessing it is gold foiled with a unique surface design (= originally expensive).  The seppa appear to be likewise.  What I can see of the fuchi suggests something interesting.  So, Harry, could we please see closeups of the fittings - habaki (blade collar), tsuba (guard) and the handle fittings, not forgetting the menuki, the little ornaments under the handle binding.  Oh, and do you have the kozuka, the little knif and handle that fits into the slot at the handle end of the scabbard???  Never mind gimei (false signature on the blade), a nice looking overall "package".

 

BaZZa.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Firm agreement with Bazza, would be happy with this one myself despite the Gimei.

[Harry]

Thanks folks. I wonder if this is an old blade that someone has added the signature to in order to increase it’s value? It does not seem new, but I have been wrong many times before. I will post closeup photos of the fittings later today. The Tsuba is not original to this Koshirae. I bought this and another Tanto recently, both without their Tsuba. This replacement Tsuba I paired it with seemed a good fit. Hopefully I am not breaking any collector guidelines by doing that?

 

Kiril, I don’t see the cutout you are referring to on the nakago. I suspect that I don’t have enough experience to see it. Both sides of the nakago have writing and I am not sure which is the signature? Would collectors consider it a fatal flaw? A mutual friend of ours (Alex C.) pointed out a forging flaw near the hilt which I noticed but did not consider significant. Is that what you are referring to? I have much to learn here.

 

I must say that I am relieved it is not junk. I have bought a couple of other blades from this seller and would be worried about them also if this one was junk. If this goes the way my other collection has then I won’t develop a real sense of what it is a keeper and what is a throwback until I have handled many more pieces than the few I have already. One thing that helped me a great deal was establishing a relationship with a trusted and respected dealer. Studying the pieces I bought from the dealer, which I had confidence were authentic, made all the difference for me. I would like to follow the same path with this collection. Anyone know of a dealer that they consider dependable and trustworthy?

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

Harry

[Brian]

Not junk..a perfectly reasonable antique. But I don't think the signature is genuine of course. Still a nice package.
The patina around the signature does not match the rest. I think it was altered and re-signed. Not sure that is a forging flaw on the top of the nakago, but not sure what it is either.
All in all, a nice blade in good polish it seems.
 

[Harry]

  So, Harry, could we please see closeups of the fittings - habaki (blade collar), tsuba (guard) and the handle fittings, not forgetting the menuki, the little ornaments under the handle binding.  Oh, and do you have the kozuka, the little knif and handle that fits into the slot at the handle end of the scabbard???  

 

 

Here are a few photos of the fittings. The knife came without a Tsuba, Kogai or a Kogatana. I figure I can add them later like I did the Tsuba. It may take a while to find a good match. I think the fittings are Shakudou with gold highlights. I am impressed by the fine miniature detail. I've a couple antique Indian Dhal (shields) with excellent miniature gold and silver work, but this rivals or bests that. Thanks for your help!

 

Harry

[Ken-Hawaii]

Harry, rather than calling your blade a "knife," the actual name depends on the length of its cutting edge. Measure from the notch to the tip - if it's 12" or less, it's called a tanto; if between 12"-24", it's called a wakizashi. I'm fairly sure you know this, but seeing knife a few times is just wrong.

[Rivkin]

One is date another one is signature, and where the signature is (ending in saku, the one before last image in the first post) the transition from the polished steel into the nakago right above the signature is unusual, its almost like a step. There are other things as well, which make one wonder what was done to the nakago.

 

Kirill R.

[Harry]

One is date another one is signature, and where the signature is (ending in saku, the one before last image in the first post) the transition from the polished steel into the nakago right above the signature is unusual, its almost like a step. There are other things as well, which make one wonder what was done to the nakago.

 

Kirill R.

 

 

Thanks Kiril. That bit of transition between polished steel and nakago is suspicious. Maybe done to hide a flaw or other signature? 

 

Ken - you are absolutely right. I will make a better effort to use the proper terminology.

 

Harry

[ROKUJURO]

Harry,

is that HABAKI gold foiled or is it really solid? It is difficult to determine from the photos. In any case it is a nice one, as is the whole KOSHIRAE.

[Harry]

Harry,

 

is that HABAKI gold foiled or is it really solid? It is difficult to determine from the photos. In any case it is a nice one, as is the whole KOSHIRAE.

 

Hi Jean,

I am not sure. It seems solid but it could just be plate. I'll post some better photos later today. I think I could see what's under the surface by scratching the inside if that is not a bad idea? I have those from time to time.

[Harry]

Harry,

 

is that HABAKI gold foiled or is it really solid? It is difficult to determine from the photos. In any case it is a nice one, as is the whole KOSHIRAE.

 

I think it is plated, over copper or a copper alloy.

[ROKUJURO]

Harry,

you are probably correct. It is a nice (and valuable) HABAKI, but with gold foil (or even solid!), one would have to think about the value of the blade. Often, high-end blades are equipped with suitable components. 

[Harry]

Harry,

 

you are probably correct. It is a nice (and valuable) HABAKI, but with gold foil (or even solid!), one would have to think about the value of the blade. Often, high-end blades are equipped with suitable components. 

 

Hi Jean,

I am surprised at the responses I have received about this one. I bought this thinking it was an entry-level example. I only cared that it be authentic and antique. I am at least a year or two from having the experience and confidence I need to make a serious investment. This Tanto and the other half dozen pieces I have bought were all acquired at an entry-level price from someone that seems to have a significant amount of experience with Japanese edged weapons, so it seems unlikely he will make a mistake and sell me something nice at an entry-level price. When I learned that the mei was a fake I figured this was a "throwback" for sure, but I like it and others seem to also. I feel confident from what others have said that it is indeed antique and authentic. That's all I ask right now. I will focus on better quality pieces once I am sure I know the difference between keeper and throwback. I made a lot of mistakes with my Islamic collection and prefer not to do that again.  Many thanks to you and others for the help!

 

Harry

[PNSSHOGUN]

Examples like this are often thrown by the wayside due to the fake signature, it most certainly isn't a rule though, majority of these Gimei pieces you see on ebay are mostly "junk".

[Surfson]

Is there a signature on the fuchi?  If there is not one on the top surface, perhaps is there one on the inner surface?  

[Harry]

Is there a signature on the fuchi?  If there is not one on the top surface, perhaps is there one on the inner surface?  

 

It is unsigned. On the upside - the spot on the blade just before the Habaki I thought might be a forging flaw is just a deep scratch.