Trying To Find Out More About My Sword

[Kip70]

Dear all,

 

I'm trying to find out more about a sword I recently bought. From what I read and saw here on this forum it seems to be a WW2 Japanese NCO sword with wooden handle. But I'm hoping you guys can tell me a bit more about it. Let me tell you what I know:

 

It came from the estate of someone who lived in the Dutch East Indies before, during and shortly after the war. He had a collection of many old Indonesian weapons like the klewang, krisses and rentjong daggers. Plus this samurai sword that I bought. So to me it looks like this man somehow got hold of this sword just after the war and that he took it with him when he repatriated.

 

The sword itself is about 100cm long in total. The blade is 5mm thick near the handle, thinner near the end. The handle is attached to the blade using two screws that seem original. They seem that to me because they are cut off to fit in length, and they fit perfectly in their holes. The whole thing feels, looks and smells  very old and original, but also very flimsily made. It seems to have been made of the cheapest materials and without much attention to detail. I don't know why, but to me it feels as though it was made by some local Indonesian knifemaker, not in a factory in Japan. I'm curious to know what you think of that. 

 

The sheath is made of wood covered in leather. The sword fits pretty snuggly in it, but when the sword is inserted all the way there is a small gap left of about 5mm. 

 

For the rest, please see the pictures that I took. The main things I am interested in are what type of sword this is exactly and where and when you think this sword was made. But any other information you have is wellcome too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lonely panet]

sorry for the bad news but iIMHO its a very poor repro.

 

its 100% off in every aspect, so I wont try and list any points. most of the time stories are just stories.

 

regards Hamish

 

PS, what would I know, im just talking out my ass

[DRDave]

I don't know why, but to me it feels as though it was made by some local Indonesian knifemaker, not in a factory in Japan. I'm curious to know what you think of that. 

 

 

I would agree.  It appears the habaki is soldered to the blade.  Are there any markings on the nakago?

[Bruce Pennington]

Kip,

 

These are always very difficult to know anything about for sure. There were many island made a swords during the war, by local people groups. They were not Japanese made, but were often in the service of locals who were serving under the Japanese.

 

There were also many fake swords made during, and after the war. So it is almost impossible to say which category of this one falls into.

 

If you want to do more research google “PETA forces, WWII”.

[IJASWORDS]

Whilst your sword is not a Japanese WW2 sword, it is more than likely made by the Islanders to look like one. It may well have been made during the war time period to look like their Japanese occupiers swords.  

[Kip70]

Dear Dave, no markings on the nakago. And Hamfish, if it was made by a local smith in downtown Batavia, I guess you could call it a 'repro'! On Japaneseswordindex.com I found this text:

 

"By 1945, there were numerous "desperation" end of war varieties of shin-gunto being produced both in Japan and in the areas of Japanese occupation. These swords have plain copper, brass or iron mounts, simple wire tassel loops, low grade brown/tan/green ito, and poorly constructed black painted wood saya, some with leather scabbard covers. Swords of this type are all of the poorest quality, made from low grade materials. None have traditionally made blades. They are swords in form only and of interest only as historical artifacts."

 

Looking at the materials of my sword, how it was constructed and where it allegedly came from I figured it may have been produced locally in Indonesia. 

[Dave R]

I would like to see a photo' of the whole tang. I think this "just might be"  a remounted NCO blade.

[Kip70]

Dear Dave, this is the whole tang:

 

[Grey Doffin]

This is, at best, something made in the islands to look like a Japanese sword but I think, much more likely, it is a Chinese fake made during the early days of ebay to sell to the unsuspecting.

Grey

[raaay]

 

sorry - it is wishful thinking this is Japanese, IMHO 150% fake

[Stephen]

No island dreaming...with Ray n Gray on this.

[Brian]

Me too

[Kip70]

Thank you for your opinions guys. Considering the house it came from the route China/eBay doesn’t seem likely (I think the man didn’t own a computer). But who knows, maybe he bought it on a later trip to the east, or someone gave it to him as a present. Or maybe it’s an Indonesian made one afterall, taken home by him after the war. Too bad I can’t ask the owner anymore!

[Brian]

They have been making and selling fakes since the end of the war. Lots of servicemen brought back fakes.