FlorianB

I appreciate the enthusiasm in this topic. However, what we read here are laments about and proofs for the erroneous classification system. BTW criticism which isn’t new at all and popped up from time to time. The topic is labelled „ideas that need to change“, but with all respect we read nothing about attempts or even any suggestions for a revision of the classification. Instead the discussion gets lost in details, which better should be discussed separatly. It’ s easy to tear down the walls but there must arise something new, a heap of ruins will satisfy no one. If in the past attempts have been made (and I do believe so) to establish a new system these efforts apparently failed. And as long as no alternatives will exist I’m afraid we will stick to the old classification furthermore: „We know it’s not good, but it’s the only one we have!“ Florian

Concerning the timeline I waited for this Tsuba with controversial dating to pop up but now I yield it by myself: It is owned by the Museum of Fine Art in Boston and according to Okabe Kakuya who wrote the first museum catalog in 1908 it is a Momoyama piece. Okabe interpreted the combination of gourd and kiri as a hint to Toyotomi Hideyoshi and the background pattern of snowflakes is said to have been a popular fabric design at this time, too. I think even today the museum refers to this dating (see also „Lethal Elegance“ by Joe Earle). The very same Tsuba is depicted in Sasano’s TOSOGU NO KIGEN (1979). He focused on the peculiar form of the hitsu-ana. In the named book he sums up the development of Kogai and Kozuka pointing out that the early ones have a flat design while later with the Goto-lineage more and more relief-like decoration appeared. This makes it necessary to change the form of the hitsu-ana to larger, rounded ones. In correspondence with other examples showing similar primary hitsu-ana he dates it back to the Nambokucho period. About 200 years difference! There are others who dated it in between those periods and I don’t think there will be ever an ultimate answer. But why I mentioned this Tsuba is that the age estimation is based on one hand on the design, on the other hand on a technical background. Best, Florian

Sorry to correct the "jumping carp": It's a KOINOBORI, a windsack in form of a carp used as an auspicious symbol on boy's day on May 5th. An UKIYO-E by Hiroshige (maybe the model for the TSUBA in question?): Best, Florian

I want to clarify my objection concerning the demand for historical illustrations. Edo-period illustrations (excluding pattern books of course) depict hardly any individual Tsuba-Design although we know many different models were in use. But this obviously means nothing. llustrations from Muromachi-times depict also no individual Tsuba-Design - but this shall proof their non-existence. I can only speculate why Tsuba patterns have been omitted by the artists through the times, but at least the illustrations cannot (or only in some cases) consulted to back up the development of Tsuba. Florian

Thomas, in some way You are right, it’s the same old story of supply and demand. There was a time, I also thought gaining a papered piece is the top of bliss. But someday I had the opportunity to buy something and asked if it is papered. The seller asked me in return, if I do collect papers? At this point I became grounded and I possess many pieces today without paper. Nice to have them, but it is more important to recognize the quality of a piece itself. Alas, many folks are still blended by papers or even worse demand them to be sure. BTW: The limitations at the shinsa is a result of missing judges, too. I think if they had enough board members, they could manage the flood of submissions as well… Florian

Besides the attribution: In my younger collector days (decades ago) a Hozon-paper was something special and proofed a certain grade. But today Tsuba from top to low End got Hozon so it became an inflationary practice and says nothing about quality at least. IMHO these papers will loose more and more significance (as the former Kicho-Papers have). If there will be maybe a revision of the certification system it can only be build up on levels of quality to become reliable again. Florian

Glen, the shots are just a random selection (just a fast search) of woodcut prints found in the web, but endless others could be added. I choose especially prints of the Edo-times and also scenes of this time, so decorated Tsuba must have been common. Thus it is peculiar artists don’t depict them (the suggested reason I gave above). Florian

The illustrations of Tsuba on paintings (scrolls and screens) and woodblock prints are not a reliable source. In most cases plain round or mokko-shaped swordguards WITHOUT ANY decoration (neither sukashi nor kinko - and by the way without hitsu-ana!) are shown. Does it means that samurai didn’t use decorated Tsuba? Certainly not, but the depiction of small details was apparently technical difficult or the artist wasn’t interested in an exact depiction and a simplified, standardized type was sufficient for him. Florian

Gentlemen, I want You to remember that Mr. Haynes is a well reputed and skilled collector so there is no need for mockery. Don’t forget he went for Tsuba when most of us haven’t been born and without todays possibilities. There are indeed pieces I won’t agree with Mr. Haynes judgement, but this can be discussed without scoffing. Florian

Mostly we are looking for a definitive, and thus satisfying explanation, in this particular case a Tsuba motif. But there are Japanese design motives which are intentionally unclear and could be interpreted in different ways. So everything You will see in it is correct! Maybe an artist created a Tsuba without the purpose to depict something. He has had just fun by playing with forms or varying existing ones. In these cases just enjoy the result and admire the beauty of shapes and surface. And the little secret not exactly to know what it means keeps it more interesting. Florian

Hi Steve, the wavy lines in the circle merge in a curve into the outer rim and connect these parts to one form. So I would clearly support Your sea cumber interpretation. Similar examples with angular connections at the junction seem far more indifferent. In the "Tosogu Classroom" Vol. 1 the motif is assumed as "OI" or backpack box for Yamabushi. So it’s a nice example how a little variation of curvature changes a design. However, a wonderful find! Congrats! Florian

Seeing the front I wasn't sure what to make out of it, but the backside looks all right. I’ve never seen such before - interesting indeed! Is the front side plated? Florian

Robert, The piece was made irregular intentionally. However, I’m not sure, if there are inlays missing. Needs cleaning which can be easily done with the usual means. What about the back side? Florian

The lattice is depicted fractional to allude to transientness. Florian

Thomas, Yes, they did - remembering Your fantastic pieces! First of all I wanted to correct the Kyo Sukashi imputation (my personal favorite) without daunting a young collector. I thought also of Kinai but didn’t dare to write it down because of my limited knowledge. Florian

Doesn't look like Kyo Sukashi (or Heianjo sukashi). It might be based on their composition, but it lacks their elegance and such modelled sukashi is untypical. What about Shoami? Best Florian

Fish bones indeed, there was a detailed report on this topic some time ago in the Token Bijutsu magazine, alas I don't know which issue.

Dimensions?

https://www.aoijapan.com/set-of-tosogu：tomei：tsuba-kozuka-fuchi-kashira-menuki-ura-gawara-kurikata-nbthk-juyo-tosogu-65th-millet/ Wonderful set - alas, not for small pockets! Florian

Agreed, one of those abstract motives which were made with the intent to confuse the viewer. Personally I tend to recognize a floral motif. However, there are some Higo Jingo Tsuba with an abstract design called butterfly. One of these here: http://world.seiyudo...m/product/tu-040415/ Maybe there's a connection? Best, Florian

My humble contribution - a classical Kyo-Sukashi with bamboo and iris. Florian

That’s right generally, but I can imagine, that there were also warriors who chose more showy pieces because they could afford them and/or want to boast. Especially in pre-Edo times when social rules were not as strict as under the Tokugawa bakufu. Florian

For me it is the art itself, the combination of design and workmanship. In all those years I saw a lot of Tsuba and interestingly most of them don’t appeal to me. I flip through the dealer’s sites or look at the offerings at meetings, but only a handful catch my eye. If I buy pieces it is out of interest or for studies. But every few years there’s one which arouse the ambition to possess them in a flash. I can’t tell why, maybe they look perfect to me. Those I esteem especially. Best, Florian

Dan, the sawastika is called manji 卍, the pattern on the second one is called sayagata 紗綾形. There are many Tsuba with this auspicious pasttern. Here's one of mine with some kind of manji: Best, Florian

I know only round nanako grains. Maybe the remark refers to the arrangement itself? On Tsuba these are usually round, on Fuchi or Kozuka they are linear. Example I showed recently in another thread. Best, Florian