george trotter

Toto ju nin means Eastern Capital Resident person Toto = Eastern Capital (Tokyo) Regards,

Hi Geoff, I am like Bruce, I have seen various smiths noted as being Kaigun Jumei Tosho over the years but have never seen a list (or started one). Here is the one you mention as INABA Kaneyoshi mentioned in Slough p.73 as (Matsubara) Kaneyoshi Aichi Pref. IM yen). He signed INABA but as Slough says, his real name is MATSUBARA (Toko Taikan p.142, ygr bro. of Nakata Kanehide, Seki RJT 2 m yen)...wonder if he is the often seen "smith" signing INABA on many Navy/Toyokawa stainless steel blades that we see? Looking forward to the "Geoff List" aren't we Bruce? Regards,

Yes, very nice Neil, thanks for sharing...and thanks for your and Brandon's comments on polish. Gotta love the gendaito. Regards,

Hi Bruce, Yes 78 on munw. These are just from a list I noted down over the years...all nos on tang mune. No sorry, didn't keep any pics, just made note as they were Osaka/Hyogo/Kyoto area smiths/mountings/numbers. Regards, Geo.

Great info... Bruce, I checked my file on Kunihide and I can say tang numbers 90, 98, 99 are ALL star stamp. Also on this list is two more tang number swords: Masakuni (Osaka?) star 19/5 tang 78 Rinji mounts Endo Tomonari Kobe star 19/7 tang 24 Rinji mounts. Volker, I have tried to contact/email the Inari Shrine in Kyoto about my smith Kunihide working there in WWII but have never succeeded. If you or your friend can get some more information on the Fushimi Inari forge in WWII, can you see if there is any mention of (RJT smith) Fushimi ju Takashima Kunihide saku working there in 1944-45? (tang mei photo above). Great stuff, Regards

Yes interesting Thomas...one for Bruce?...these small nakago-mune numbers only? seem to be from Hyogo/Osaka/Kyoto area smiths and/or mounting shops.

Hi Thomas, just saw your reply/question....yes, that is the correct reading of his mei. Date side says 19/8. Very small numbers on nakago mune are 98...I have also seen same date/mei numbered 90 on nakago mune. Thanks for your interest... Regards,

The Aizu Kanesada being dated 1836 should be the 10th generation. Born 1818, Died 1869. A good line of smiths descending from Mino Kanesada line.

Hi Baz, Yes I checked and Tomita Sukehiro info and picture is on page 78 of Gendai Toko Meikan. Brandon san, Sorry to butt in but I think it is a mistake to re-polish that Sukehiro. IMO it is better to have a WWII blade in a high quality sashi-komi WWII polish with a few scratches than an "altered" WWII blade with one of these awful, historically inappropriate modern ha-dori polishes. Sorry, I'll shut up now...

Hi Volker, Yes Uwe is correct in his translation...I was quite wromg...not Oshu, but Inshu (Inaba). Sorry.

Volker san, I can't help much, but I think the inscription is: O-shu Fuji-X Nao-suke Kane-mitsu I am not sure of some of this reading of course, but Oshu is Fukushima Prefecture (Aizu-Wakamatsu). You need to look for the smith names possibilities as Naosuke (unless it is a personal name?)....and Kanemitsu. There was a branch of the Mino Kanesada line up there running from c. 1670-1903, so maybe a pupil? Hope this helps a little, Regards, Edit to add...Oh I see Uwe has added info...most likely mine has errors...sorry.

Wonder who the naughty schoolboy was who lost the parts....?

I have 11 swords - I love them all - I would not part with any of them. 1. Mumei - Bizen c. 1400 2. Seisui Tokyo 1944 3. Yamagami Munetoshi Niigata 1941 (RJT smith) 4. Yamagami Munetoshi Niigata 1943 RJT star 5. Okishiba Yoshisada Osaka c.1943 (RJT smith) 6. Nagao Kunishiro Aomori 1944 RJT star 7. Shigekuni Wakayama? c. 1942 8. Nakata Kanehide Gifu 1944 RJT star 9. Mumei early gendaito c.1890? 10. Takashima Kunihide Kyoto 1944 RJT star 11. Tsukamoto Masakazu Fukushima 1942 (RJT smith)

Hi Bruce, May have discussed these marks before...can't rememeber, but (again?) for your files... This one you show is a blade by Igarashi Akimitsu, RJT star of Niigata. Date 4/1943 (2128 na) on tang, marked 'i'536 on all RS metal parts. Mine is by Yamagami Munetoshi RJT of Niigata. Date 8/1943 (1080 matsu) on tang, marked 'i'403 on all RS metal parts. Both RJT, both 1943, both Niigata, both 'i' number on parts. Regards,

Ganko san, I was just browsing and saw this...It's been a while since you posted this but can I ask about the sword on the bottom of "Image 1"? (hope I haven't asked before). Is it RJT? Name of smith? date? tang numbers? What area of Japan? I ask because I have one mounted the same way (rare..only seen about 3) mine is an RJT by Takashima Kunihide of Kyoto dated 8/44 with nos 98 on top edge of tang...I think they come from the Kyoto - Osaka - Hyogo region. Hope you canhelp, Regards,

A bit hard to see for my old eyes but I think it is signed by Kaneyoshi. I think your tang is signed MiNo Ju KaneYoshi Saku (Resident of Mino, Kaneyoshi made (this)). there were two of this name that I am aware of - both working in Seki. Yoshida Kaneyoshi started as Seki smith 8 Oct 1939 Matsuhara (also Matsubara) Kaneyoshi started at seki 11 Nov 1941 Not sure which is yours...

That is super nice Neil...I had forgotten just how nice it is. Congrats! Thanks for posting. Regards,

Glad we sorted this one out Thomas. Regards,

Yes, Bruce. The essential aspects are that the RJT scheme was formulated and "enforced" by the Army. Tatara iron supplied to "approved" swordsmiths. Swords traditionally made in smith's regional forge. Polished locally, mounted locally, sent to regional centre for collection (inspected/stamped there) sent to various Kaikosha for sale. From sale price the smith, tatara, polisher, mounter were paid. I don't know what more we can say to doubters on this RJT system...the facts are clear...to get the star stamp the sword HAD to be made to strict Army guidelines...of tamahagane, HAD to be tradititionally forged and tempered...that is...a Gendaito. In fact, this RJT star system is actually a "guarantee" of a true gendaito. If a sword exists with a star stamp but is a showato...it must be a fake. just a comment on some other comments in Nicks posts at warrelics that may be unclear...I have said elsewhere that the Yasukuni had its own tatara on site from 1933-1945 and a second tatara was established in Shimane Pref. c. 1933-1945....this one (I think) was mainly supplying the RJT scheme...Checking my sources however, I am in fact not sure if there was a tatara on the grounds of the Yasukuni shrine or if they too used the tamahagane made at the Shimane tatara...maybe someone can add info here. Good stuff Bruce, Edit to add....the Yasukuni Shrine tatara seems to have in fact been in Shimane Prefecture - see Yasukuni Swords pp84-93. I think I said it was in Yasukuni grounds because it is referred to ar Yasukuni tatara even though it was halfway down the country away. sorry about that.

Hi Bruce, good info...thanks to you and Nick for posting. Book 2 on the Aizu RJT (called in Japanese "Gunto Kumiai Shimatsu - Rikugun Jumei Tosho no Shuen" published by Aizu Bunkazai Chosa Kenkyu Kai 1994)...was sent to me a few years ago by Morita sama...good info The "stringent specs' of the RJT scheme are those pages I translated on RJT swordmaking rules...also sent to me by Morita sama. These are on Brian's interesting publications page. I note that the scheme was said to be intended to help metal workers/tool makers become swordsmiths....this is probably an outcome, but I think most RJT smiths had already risen to that level from toolmaking when the RJT scheme was announced I say this as my RJT smith blades by Niigata Munetoshi (and his bro, Akihisa) of the Kasama school, Nagao Kunishiro of Aomori, Nakata Kanehide of Seki of Watanabe school etc., Tsukamoto Masakazu of Fukushima (Aizu)of Kasama school had already become properly trained smiths when the RJT scheme was announced. Reading their histories, only Masakazu's family were "in tools" prior to him beginning his study in swords c.1936. I know my sample is small, but there are no smiths among them who were described as being taken from tool forges and trained in swords...all did their 4-8 years of apprenticeship in swords. keep up the good work,

Bruce...maybe the tang number is the polish shop number and fittings numbers (if present) are put on by mounting shops? Like my private order Masakazu (RJT smith) in RS mounts - tang stamped 1129 (polisher number?), all metal fittings stamped 'ni' 1129 , maybe mounting shop number 'linked' to polisher number because in this case the shop did both polish and mounts? Usually the number on tangs is different to numbers on fittings - maybe because they went to separate shops for polish and mounting? Of course we need more study on this, but some tangs do have / don't have numbers....some fittings do have / don't have numbers...some tang and fittings numbers match each other...most don't....this doesn't seem like a "sensible structure' for a production output recording/tracking system. I tend to think that the RJT scheme kept track of a smith's output by a different, simple "accounting" scheme - one that shows up on the sword as the star stamp. This star is tallied next to the smiths name and at the end of each month the Army just checks RJT smith X - if he has 10 star stamped swords sent in last month and this matches the 10 boxes of tamahagane they sent him...all is good. If he got 10 boxes but only sent in 8 swords, the RJT inspector would check him out...no need for 100s of different number systems? Of course, I am probably wrong about this also...probably better to wait til you find the real answer Bruce. Keep at it,

Hi Bruce, I must have misled you by accident - when I said the numbers 90-98 are Kunihide's monthly RJT output of 10 I didn't mean the RJT put those numbers on...I actually mean the mune numbers here are most likely polish or mounting shop numbers. put on by them when Kunihide sent his monthly bundle of 10 RJT blades over for polish/mounting. I actually am coming to think that all these various numbers etc are most likely just shop tally numbers - not RJT or smith numbers. About the Kunihide details....no I don't have pics...the RJT Takashima Kunihide of Fushimi Kyoto details are from old posts and other sources I noted down years ago...only the appraisal paper 98 and mine 90 are pics. I only listed them here with the Masakuni 75 (sorry, I said 78 by mistake) and Tomonari 24 examples because they are all Kobe/Hyogo - Osaka-Kyoto area smiths. Hope this helps?

Very nice Volker, great example of a RJT sword and mounts from the Kyoto/Osaka/Hyogo area...always good quality. Nice to see another nakago mune number as this makes about 3-4-5 RJT smiths from this area now recorded with mune numbers (Bruce can confirm?). Interesting. Masakuni Osaka? 5/1944 78 Endo Tomonari Kobe Hyogo 7/1944 24 Kunihide Kyoto 8/1944 90 Kunihide Kyoto 8/1944 98 Kunihide Kyoto 8/1944 99 ? ? ? ? Interesting to us RJT nerds anyway. PS I would guess that Kunihide's blades all being the same date and numbered 90-99 would be his RJT scheme monthly output of 10 all being delivered to the polishing/mounting shop in a monthly bundle.

Oh noooo!...Jacques, I was waiting for you to present us with your irrefutable proof that RJT star stamped blades have been rejected by expert panels as "not traditionally made". Oh well, I guess we will just have to wait for you to 'prove' your latest proclamation... that this is the "Last comment for me".

FYI, I have a RJT star stamped blade by Takashima Kunihide of Fushimi, Kyoto - dated August 1944 and numbered on the back of the tang 98. Here also is a pic of a NBTHK papered sword signed by Takashima Kunihide of Fushimi, Kyoto - dated August 1944 and numbered on the back of the tang 90. The star stamp on mine (see pic) is almost invisible - so lightly stamped. The same applies to the papered blade...I think I can see it in the poor pic ...wouldn't say for certain...look just to right of top peg-hole (same place as on mine). So you have two blades made at the same time, same place, by same smith, with same army stamping numbering system and one is papered. Hope this helps,