george trotter

that is one H--l of a rough hammered tang!...hard to believe it has a reasonably good blade on the other end...

Thanks for the link Dan. Gut feeling is ... ummm...nothing to get excited about! Hard to tell much due to poor quality/small size of pics. Blade looks good-ish, tang too rusty/rough to tell much on age etc. Scabbard and tsuba definitely non-military, only hilt fuchi/kashira are RS....one hole in tang?, can't see any sign of a peg hole in the hilt...overall verdict...not RS. Might be a private sword 'militarised' for field use. Regards,

Bruce.. Just thought I'd mention the stamp in the last pic...looks like 'na' stamp?

Yes Bruce and Stephen, I'm not sure who this WAGO is either. I had a dig through my books when I saw this but could not find a listing for WAGO SADATOMO (I didn't notice the extra stroke either)...he is not listed in the books/lists I accessed...might be an early name usage or a place name of some period in his life...just not sure....pretty sure he would be listed under WAGO and for YAMAGATA if he was recorded in books so don't think he is "someone else"...seems to be just unknown. BTW, I did not find a "tomo-like" kanji with that extra stroke in my Japanese dictionaries. I will keep digging and let you know if I find something.

just in case Bruce sees this one and hasn't got it on his "numbers" list, the smith is Ushu Yamagata ju Wago Sadatomo saku ....date is Showa 19 6 month ...and tang stamp is Ma 894 Other than this I can't find out anything about him.

Hi Bruce, looks like Trystan has this covered...

Chris and Geraint, Yes there is some very mild notare (VERY mild)...I think you are right to say it could be termed as mild notare komi. I am prepared to class it as that. Thank you. Regards, PS, Geraint, I show the image of kaeri katai/katashi on my post Jan 27 above...it basically means the return is tight/short (I think)

Not sure what you mean Geraint?

Thanks Geraint...yes makes sense of course. In my case the kaeri is not taki-otoshi kaeri (waterfall) - mine stops abruptly - the temper on the mune of mine is a separate spot of muneyaki. My major difficulty has been identifying the correct descriptive words for my boshi...I feel it is ko-maru kaeri katai ...any comment? Regards,

Ummm...sorry, can't leave it alone. Checking dictionaries etc and hamon pics I think I will abandon the word "kaeri-yoru" and go back to the the word "kaeri-katai or katashi". Ko-maru Kaeri-katai essentially means "a small tight circle with short return" (check pic & drawing on my Saturday post above). If any of our native Japanese speakers would like to agree/disagree/correct etc...they would be welcome. Regards,

Thank you guys....interesting comments. First Will...yes I think George Boshi is OK, after all there was a guy down your way who collected Bushes, and they made him President of the USA...ha ha. And Dan...I understand what you ask, but even without a 'window' I can see enough of it to assess it (as I have)...only the 'varying' vocab of 'correct terms' is the hangup. And Jean, yes, it would be great if it was in clean WWII polish, but sadly, it is dirty (sigh). And yes, definitely a patch of muneyaki there behind the end of the kaeri. The very active blade has tobiyaki and hitatsura, also. So guys, good stuff, I appreciate your comments. Regards, P.S. On re-polish. I think maybe one influence on my 'attitude' to re-polish is that post-war hadori is sooo 'out of place' with the characteristics of WWII polish. I think my distaste for 'out of place' polish etc is partly due to the fact I collect WWII RJT gunto - to me they are high class weapons of war (the last sword actually made for war), so they, and their polish is history (You can see I was 30 years at local State Museum here) so I prefer a 90% perfect WWII polish over a 100% perfect hadori...To me, hadori is like putting a solar panel on a 70 year old Sherman tank. Hope this all makes sense (I'm not crazy). I collect the beauty/quality of WWII era gendaito, and that includes keeping it in original polish if possible...if in dire need of a repolish, I would stick with sashikomi. (note: this is not to say other views on hadori are wrong, just what I think...I can certainly tolerate different views ...as my mother would say "I'm sooo tolerant, I ache". One last PS...feel free to say what you think the little 'kinked/crooked circle' feature in the ko-maru is called (several of my books show it, but do not name it). Regards,

Thanks Brian, Yes, I think you are right. You and Piers have both pointed towards remembering that Japanese texts often differ from each other. I think it is pretty obvious that the membership also is reluctant to make any BOLD statement on it as any firm declaration is almost certain to be contradicted in existing or future publications....wise choice. Probably wise for me to be wise too. I think then, after more searching and thinking, I will keep it simple and class my boshi as: Ko-Maru with short, sturdy Kaeri-yoru. I think that covers it.... Thanks, I'll let it rest now...

Just a bump...any description?

OK, one last try...as Piers says above, the Japanese use a number of 'sort of' words when describing features, so I though I'd ask the NMB 'straight shooters' their assessments. Here is a drawing of what is essentially the exact same boshi as on my sword above (my kaeri is maybe a tad shorter). This was in Hawley 'Japanese Swordsmiths' 1967 vol. 2 p,682 (blue books). Unfortunately it is a on a drawing of a sword blade kikusui hamon so this boshi is not described in any way....soooo, can I ask those here who have knowledge, how they would describe this sword in Japanese boshi terms? (with English translation?). Thanks.

Thanks Piers, yes, an interesting little journey...a bit unusual for me to 'open it up' for NMB discussion, but I thought it would be of interest to members and I was interested to hear members' opinions. And yes, regarding the Japanese text avoidance of absolute statements, I did this little exercise with that in mind... I think I am happy at last with this classification 'ko-maru kaeri-yoru' as it is factual, but still leaves room for discussion of 'ko' and/or 'togari' and Mishina, midare etc..on other boshi compared with this one. So fun for me (sorry to bore other members)...and yes, I know some must be thinking the blade deserves a polish, but you know my paranoia about modern polish. Oh and speaking of modern polish, I have seen references to boshi with togari-gokoro but the kesho polish makesit hard to see. The several I saw were all different, but all termed as 'becoming togari-gokoro...maybe a pic/drawing or 2 Piers? (just to help us learn). Thanks again to all who commented.

Hmmm....not much happening here, so may I annoy you one more time? I think this might be the answer I'm looking for. Here is a boshi from Iimura's 'TOKEN YORAN. 1980 p.347. The description just says Kaeri Katashi (return tight)? Can this be called ko-maru kaeri katashi (small circle with tight return ? (blunt/short return?). Any comments? Thanks Okay - several hours have passed - I think I have it (slow I know - duuh!). Anyway, simplest classification is from Nakahara 'Japanese Swords' p.160 fig 238 Ko-Maru, Kaeri-Yoru = small circle, kaeri ends abruptly (rather squarely) see new sketch. This fits Mishina and others discussed. I think I'll stick with this...I'll leave now.

Not really trying to bucket it into a tradition, as there are as you say, considerable numbers of 'varieties' in gendai blades, especially from those under pressure to make a minimum of 10 blades/month in the RJT scheme. All I really wanted was feedback on the closest term to use to describe this boshi. I also think Jizo, but maybe Mishina version of Jizo boshi, but would like to hear opinions.

Thanks Brian, I am leaning much loser to classing it as a Mishina version of a Jizo-boshi....which is what a Mishina boshi is - just the Mishina school version of a Jizo. Although my guy is a Bizen oriented smith, there is no reason why he would always stick to the Bizen boshi - mostly versions of the sansaku boshi (your chart top row 4 from left). So, thanks again. Always happy to hear more opinion folks...

Thanks John...just to clarify, if I have got you right, you have classified this picture?...the photo above is not really notare....closer to this drawing of a non-notare togari example. In fact, mine is really this one but with the shorter, abruptly ending kaeri (except that mine is not this togari (pointed), but closer to a small headed Jizo)...see my problem?

I have had another look through the books and as you say Jimmy it looks like a Mishina version of a Jizo-boshi. I had considered this before and am happy to return to it now....but before I make a final decision, maybe the members could offer a comment or two? Regards,

Pippo, Bruce's latest photo just above has a lot of similarities in handwriting style to your example. There are some differences, but may be same man? Ask him what his source for the photo is and whether they say what generation Nobuyoshi he is...might be a trail to follow? Good luck...

Hi Jimmy, thanks, Yes I have checked the Sesko site and observed both Mishina and Jizo boshi, but wonder if this one fits either one exactly? What would members name this? Sorry about the polish...sword was in a shed for decades and had been a bit mis-handled by kids...but still OK. I never got it repolished as I am not happy with modern polish...rather have a dirty original than a 'post war trend' polish...just doesn't fit IMHO.

Hi all, I have a 1944 RJT blade by Nagao Kunishiro of Aomori Ken. He worked in Bizen style. I would like your learned comments on this boshi (sorry the polish is so dirty). I have previously considered this pattern but am uneasy about its correct name - can members help? I have now called it togari ko-maru (pointed small circle return)...is this accurate? Also, what to call the "abrupt" end to the return? Also - as you will notice, there is muneyaki a but further down - blade also has tobiyaki and hitatsura. regards,

Hi Matt, Bazza in Victoria just told me has seen your query and has contacted you...so all good. Thanks for those additional photos...from them it looks like your tang is 19.5 cm long (7 3/4 in) and your blade is 70 cm long (27 1/2 in). So, your tang seems about normal length (not stubby as I said) and your blade is a bit longer than normally found in RS mounts. I still think it is pre-gendai, but will have to wait for educated assessment. I also noticed that the same (rayskin) on the hilt looks like yellowed cellulose? Interesting discussion...keep us in the loop Matt. Regards, PS can you tell us where your dad served? May be a clue as to where this was surrendered.

Hi Trystan, Yes there is a lot of detail on Gunzoku we don't know. I can say that my Japanese teacher (b.1936) told me that her father served in Rabaul (New Britain, PNG) as a Gunzoku officer (medical) and had a sword "with a blue ribbon", so that fits with Nick's info about ribbon colours for 'above civilian and NCO level' Gunzoku . Interesting.